Back

Where Human Sleep Went Wrong

41 points2 hoursnautil.us
hastily311425 minutes ago

>“No way. They’re partying all night.” But they can, because there’s no top-down pressure to go into the office at 8 a.m. They’re free to catch supplemental sleep as needed throughout the 24-hour period.

This feels like the key point to me. These societies follow their body and go to sleep when they are tried, while us in the west have to sleep at a specific time to fit our schedules.

tempfile25 minutes ago

The article title is "Where human sleep went wrong" but then the entire article is about how we sleep the best we ever have, we have the most high quality sleep, and all the fearmongering about sleep is basically wrong.

usernametaken2928 minutes ago

> untangle what he calls the sleep paradox: Sleep is critical to human functioning, and yet, we sleep fewer total hours than any other ape

Instead of going to Tanzania you could’ve asked a sleep scientist. Sleep length has no known correlation to brain size and is known for drastic within family variation. What’s more sleep has a high within species variation too, some sleepers can survive 4 hours, others need 8. Collectively we used to sleep 9 hours in the 20th century, but it appears shorter sleep is fine too. TLDR: no one has any idea why sleep length varies and he won’t find his answers in antrophological studies in Tanzania, though luck, buddy

syllogism43 minutes ago

This interview feels weird to me, maybe because there's lots of places where I'm thinking there's an obvious idea that isn't raised.

Like, it seems obvious to me that sleep has a higher opportunity cost in humans than most other animals. So naturally there's more evolutionary pressure in humans to sleep more efficiently.

Is this actually true? Dunno! But it was really weird that it doesn't get brought up.

hlynurd48 minutes ago

>the Hadza uniformly reported high satisfaction with their sleep.

And why wouldn't they? This is (presumably) the only kind of sleep they know.

rob7431 minutes ago

They're probably also less confronted with articles/videos/social media posts telling them they're doing it wrong and how they should sleep instead. Sometimes ignorance (or rather, not overthinking things) is bliss...

oulipo40 minutes ago

Well probably us modern human only know the "8h sleep at night" kind of sleep, yet a lot of people would tell you whether they're satisfied or not with their sleep

montebicyclelo1 hour ago

More fragmented sleep, with people talking in the night, etc. I guess that's different from the low, unnatural, rumbles of cars and aeroplanes the majority of people have to put up with.

Flashtoo1 hour ago

> Some emerging research suggests Earth’s magnetism matters, as well. Being barefoot on the ground versus 30 stories high in a downtown skyscraper puts you in a completely different magnetic environment.

Really? My instinctive reaction to this statement is that it's quackery. Would be very interested to see headlines appear about this if it's true.

iammrpayments49 minutes ago

You can write pretty much anything you want after “Some emerging research suggests”

unprovable53 minutes ago

More evidence this may have been written by a pigeon...

ymolodtsov33 minutes ago

And Earth's magnetic field is extremely weak

eru1 hour ago

People already live in different altitudes, ie with vastly different amounts of rock between themselves and the bits of the earth that produce her magnetic field.

So colour me skeptical of this claim as well.

And while I like going barefoot for other reasons, I don't think it makes much of a difference to the magnetic fields.

krige58 minutes ago

> People already live in different altitudes, ie with vastly different amounts of rock between themselves and the bits of the earth that produce her magnetic field.

It's not really the same thing. Construction and especially the high content of charged metal (whether it's power conduits or plain old frame) may make a considerable difference.

dotancohen43 minutes ago

Do many people sleep in such tall buildings? Obviously they exist, but I can't think of any over-20 story residential building I've ever been in. Office space, sure, but not residential.

krackers43 minutes ago

There might be precedent for being able to detect changes in magnetic field

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/dogs-poop-in-alignment-...

but then again maybe not

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15587...

LYFMail1 hour ago

It's a creative innovation!

moffkalast1 hour ago

> Sleep is critical to human functioning, and yet, we sleep fewer total hours than any other ape, and are still arguably the most evolutionarily successful of the primates

> humans are weird outliers—we’re the shortest sleeping primates, yet we pack in the most REM sleep relative to this short duration

Isn't that sort of the point? Sleep is a detrimental necessity and the more efficient an organism is in needing less of it, the more effective it can be because it simply has more time to get ahead of the others?

It's still very odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system that can run while conscious, the benefits when hunting other animals that need sleep would be enormous, so there has to be significant evolutionary push for it. I suppose the single hemisphere sleep some marine mammals do is part of the way there, but it is at most a lazy workaround. Practically all other organs have evolved to run 24/7 for up to a century without a single break, what makes brains so universally different?

zorrocangrejero28 minutes ago

There's a similar mechanism called USWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unihemispheric_slow-wave_sleep (Half of the brain remains awake while the other sleeps, not an expert so please correct if wrong)

aqme2840 minutes ago

> It's still very odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system that can run while conscious, the benefits when hunting other animals that need sleep would be enormous, so there has to be significant evolutionary push for it.

I disagree. Endurance hunters walk an animal down throughout a single day. Sleep isn't the bottleneck. Efficient bipedalism and sweat are enough.

exceptione44 minutes ago

  > It's still very odd that no species has ended up evolving a continuous maintenance system that can run while conscious
Great point. Afaik, our bodies do preserve energy when we sleep/rest. A few questions that needs to answered first:

- will gains of 24/7 hunting/foraging offset the extra energy costs? Lions sleep 16-20 hours a day, according to the internet.

- do continuous maintenance systems imply duplicate systems? If so, I have a hunch that even a mere 40% increase in energy expenditure would quickly undo the gains in waking hours.

salawat48 minutes ago

The fact they electrically signal via chemical analogs fuelled by immersion in nutrient bearing fluid that also accretes waste products, yet is kept separate from the primary loop of the cardiovascular system by the blood-brain barrier?

dotancohen41 minutes ago

But why is that fundamentally different from the technobabble description of any other vital organ?