I get why people don't bother replacing the default allocator from musl all the time (it's there, convenient). But in an application whose purpose is to be FAST, I find it weird they haven't bothered replacing it with another more performant one.
mallocng is bad at dealing with contention during multithreading. I've had applications that usually were I/O bound suddenly become "malloc" bound when building with musl in multithreaded scenarios (and only just 8 threads). Switching to mimalloc improved performance by 20x, very close to what glibc offers by default, and just a bit under a glibc + mimalloc configuration.
I get that there's a real issue there and it's interesting (to some) to address it, but it should have never surfaced this way in the first place.
It's never a kernel bug... until it is!
The analysis of the kernel bug may be a better thing to link to: https://github.com/dfoxfranke/ripgrep-3494-analysis.
The overflow would still overflow; the use-after-free would still use after free; a musl mask race would still race.
Reading an AI-generated bug report is awful.
Stopped after
> Headline. The crash is real and reproducible.
Nice sleuthing, nonsense explanation. An extra TLB flush is never an error. (The CPU is free to flush whenever it feels like doing so.) The error seems to be that somehow a zero-page PTE was present when it shouldn’t have been.
This sounds to me like either (a) a complex race involving a CPU migration at an awkward time or (b) a bug in the zap path transiently exposing wrong PTEs.
Also, I don’t think the zero page has pfn zero.
If I had to throw a dart, I would guess that direct page table zapping is allowing a CPU to read through a higher-level-paging-structure cached entry to a table that has been freed and reused. Yuck. I’ve debugged one of these before.
The part that doesn't make sense to me is that trying to read through a zeroed PTE should be an immediate segfault, not something that reads back zeroes (regardless of whether the zero page is pfn 0 (it isn't)).
I think the broad strokes are that, due to bad locking in the kernel, mmap() returns a VA that a concurrent munmap() is still in the middle of unmapping. The specifics beyond that seem murky/speculative/inconsistent.
Alternatively, it could be a hardware bug, since afaict it's only been repro'd on one hardware config. (I know there are a bunch of ARM cores with erratas around TLB invalidation)
After more digging, I bet it's a paging-structure-cache flush bug. I've debugged these before, and they're nasty, hardware dependent, hard-to-reproduce issues. Looks like the code that the AI flagged might actually be wrong, but not for the reason that the AI thought.
https://lore.kernel.org/all/CALCETrXbj__SFQMzPZhES5y6-sh4np-...
> Alternatively, it could be a hardware bug, since afaict it's only been repro'd on one hardware config. (I know there are a bunch of ARM cores with erratas around TLB invalidation)
Which raises the question of whether any HN readers have successfully reproduced this?
I've just tried (using his file generation script and the official rg binary he links) on a Ryzen 7 5800X / 7.1.5-arch1-2 with sufficient free ram as the github issue suggests, and still no segfaults after 10 minutes.
It's likely the bug relies on INVLPGB support, which is introduced in zen5.
The explanation is obviously written by an AI agent.
soulless unreadable AI slop
I can read it but not sure if worth spending energy on it.
It doesn't make sense for the reader to spend more energy than the writer spent on creating it.
> It doesn't make sense for the reader to spend more energy than the writer spent on creating it.
Great way to summarize cultural "economics"
Couldn't put the words on this pattern but sometimes all I care about is that someone cared about.
energy might be the wrong metric, plenty of energy was wasted spinning up that LLM.
Yeah but the thing is that someone tries to waste time of humans.
This is why I hate "interacting" with bots, scripts or AI/LLMs. It just wastes my time, again and again and again. Oddly enough not all humans understand that. About two months ago, a german developer involved with ffmpeg, spam-slopped their mailing list with AI (it was an AI proposal for some change to ffmpeg in the future). He still does not understand why that is a problem.
PoC||GTFO, if it reproduces, it's valuable
That I agree with (not instead, in addition)
What will you do when the prompt was "Figure out the bug and write a report for me". Not saying it was in this particular case, but I think at least in other cases, it will be.
In the history of Linux that I'm aware of (and I've been nose-deep in this stuff on and off for quite a while), these issues are almost never debugged because they're reproduced -- they're debugged because someone who actually understands the messy interactions of the code and hardware in question thinks about them.
A reproducer might not actually be useful because there is basically no way short of fancy hardware tracing to figure out what the reproducer is doing.
They have a PoC, we're arguing about the LLM-generated slop explanation of the PoC.
Why is it unreadable? I actually find LLM bug reports/breakdowns to be far more detailed and concise that classical human written ones. If you read the linked repo it clearly goes it depth where the bug was found, how to reproduce it (and in depth). Most disclosures that are human written don't do this at all, they barely even tell you _how_ to reproduce the bug. Just look at the "3.3 The self-store tear", the LLM clearly describes exactly what went wrong, so you can verify it by hand.
Because any writing needs a core intent they need to convey, which you can summarize down to according to the audience and why it should be important to them. Kinda like the same idea of elevator pitches, “explain like I’m five” and tactical reports when there’s a time constraints.
You got none of that here. It’s just realms of text.
> Maybe the person writing the report isn't an expert in this domain or doesn't have the time to commit to it?
Then maybe that person should not do it? At least until they find the time?
> From my point of view as long as the information is accurate
That's the trillion-dollar catch, isn't it. LLMs love to write 30 paragraphs about some plausibly-correct-sounding explanation that is just as likely to be completely fucking wrong as it is accurate. The bug might be real, but that doesn't mean this analysis is accurate, and trying to figure out where the LLM went off the rails can be a nightmare. If you can actually understand the bug, it doesn't take 30 paragraphs to explain it. I would throw this bug report into my junk bin if I were on the receiving end of it, and I say that as someone who will spend days troubleshooting any issue a user will help me diagnose even if it only happens on their machine.
Then where’s the lie in “soulless AI slop”?
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I had the opposite reaction. Clear, detailed, well-organized. Pretty close to the ideal writeup.
Could you explain it in your own words? (I tried myself, and quickly discovered that it is incoherent)
Hi Claude! :wave:
What? it is mostly literal nonsense. Moreover the last paragraph where they say it only reproduced on one machine just does not justify the pseudo-deep analysis in the whole document.
Really? It's chock full of poorly written and irrelevant chain-of-thought rambling.
No wonder search in codex is so a$$
So, why the bug triggers only with muslc and not other libc ?
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wow, everything is broken lol
This is a bit sad. Here we have an example of rust and musl struggling whereas C/C++ and glibc does not. That's an oversimplification, but we also had not long ago the rewrite of ... I believe it was coreutils, in rust (or was it utillinux ... but I think it was coreutils), also have issues. Rust needs to toughen up here when it really wants to replace all of C in the linux ecosystem. Alternatively it could admit failure, then people can say that C will be - and remain - the forever king.
This bug is almost certainly not a bug in ripgrep or Rust or musl or any user code at all. Maybe one could complain that musl is using an inferior allocator that is freeing then immediately reallocating the same address.
In addition to this likely not being a bug in the code you're pointing at, but the kernel (written in C). musl is literally C code, and that most rust users compile against glibc just like most C users do.