Had similarly unorthodox path to tech, albeit without the drug addiction or prison.
90s early internet/BBS punk rocker/computer nerd. Hated school angry.
Dropped out to work as a bike messenger for 5 years before packing a bag and moving west randomly. Couldn't sit still. Rode freight trains around the country for a few months.
Washed dishes and landscaped to cover my cheap rent till that fell thru. Discovered shop lifting. Covered food and beer stealing from local progressive grocery store chain. Stole goods to sell on CL to cover my rent. That scam went tits up and narrowly escaped serious charges after the head of loss prevention from a regional retailer caught up to me
Was sleeping in the park--this was pre super meth/fentanyl crisis so street living was a bit more stable and low key. Didn't want to wash dishes or dig holes any more so looked around on CL. Found a small company trying to bootstrap a regional office for an established linux-related open source company. Worked for free / interned using a stolen laptop for a year or so while sleeping outside or couch surfing local punk houses.
Eventually got hired on for s but stayed for a couple years and made many FOSS connections. Eventually left to join a well known FOSS-centered company that was fully remote.
Told myself when I was young that I would never work in an office. ~15 years later and I never have ,but now work in bit tech, get paid too much, own a home and have a great family with kids who play at the same parks I used to crash at. We shop (and pay) at the same stores I used to crib from.
I'm respected and tenured at my gig but Imposter syndrome still holds me back. Nobody I work with knows where I came from and thankfully have nothing incriminating that would block a background check
Damn, tough reading about the 1 week deadline for finding work, then getting one after telling them you're jailed and them taking the chance on you.
I also found the article written so well (I suppose we don't encounter native English speakers in the blogosphere as much as we think we do), that it was a joy to read, if I can say so considering the subject matter.
As a kid I read the book "Montyn" [0] that made a deep impression on me, about Jan Montyn who fled a strict Calvinistic upbringing to join the German army in WWII and found himself in all the big battles near the end of the war, to ultimately make a career as an artist in The Netherlands.
I was reminded of the book when I recently watched the origin story [1] of the Differentbreed TV channel on youtube that gives attention to the trench war in Ukraine. The channel owner went from serious alcohol addiction while working in a liquor store, to going in a coma when deciding to go cold turkey. And then a journey to almost becoming a policeman, then a firefighter, and deciding based on training and certifications gained there, to become a combat medic in Ukraine. Then fought in the International Legion and Azov brigade. And then settle in Ukraine running the channel, and be involved in all kinds of activities that help the defense of the country. Very interesting to hear the story told from first-hand experience.
[0] https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/montyn_dirk-ayelt-kooiman/3291...
Not following how that is relevant to the article at hand?
Building from zero after addiction, to picking up a career and find a new purpose in life.
Thank you for sharing your story! I wish you continued success and I also hope that one day someone will share with you about how YOUR story helped them do something similar, just like the article did for you.
Also, Preston Thorpe (who Gavin mentions as inspiration) has an interesting story as well: https://pthorpe92.dev/intro/my-story/
Also recommend folks check out Unlocked Labs, who run a prison program for this sort of thing. Jessica is an angel:
Thank you for the link, and for sharing your story.
Thank you for that link. I recommend reading to the very last line.
“ No part of the prose was machine-generated. You will not find machine-written prose on this blog. I consider it deeply disrespectful.”
<3
Writing articles by hand isn’t just smart— it’s important. No shortcuts. No filler. No excuses.
Key insight: relying on AI for writing assistance helps neither the author nor the audience.
It was incredibly refreshing to read an honest story, warts and all, written by a human. And equally infuriating to read a comment about it written by AI.
I had assumed the comment you’re responding to is tongue in cheek but it’s honestly hard to tell sometimes.
It is, it’s designed to invoke rage over ChatGPT speak as an example of how awful it is to read.
Ironically saying "isn’t just smart— it’s important" (complete with em-dash!) and "No shortcuts. No filler. No excuses." sounds very AI-generated.
Not saying it is, just pointing out how messed up the world we live in now is.
But... was it?
i have a feeling that the fp was being sarcastic / satirical.
That’s the unlock.
that's the joke
Many HNers have their sense of humor removed, when they get their first colonoscopy.
I still crack jokes, anyway. Get the occasional downvote, but life’s too short…
I laughed
That's a really great point, and shows a deep understanding of how consistently humorless HN users are! If you want, I can show several more examples of people knee-jerk downvoting things that are actually pretty funny.
"You're absolutely right for pushing back on that!"
I want a "You're absolutely right to be upset!" printed on a shirt.
But, allow me to complete the sandwich.
It reads as clear ironic AI speak.
I love such stories. Right now, a lot of folks I know are struggling to find jobs, so I read the part about how he got a job the first day he was out of jail with some astonishment and nostalgia for the simpler days, when showing interest was often enough to land the job! Now, hoop number 1, the AI resume filter, is a strange obstacle that one has to jump through first.
The job market is rough. My wife went back to school for audio/sound design, finished the program + got a bunch of certifications.
She's been trying to get anything, even an unpaid internship, doing sound design, going to local meetups, online conferences, and hasn't had much luck.
But I told her: it's just a matter of persistence and time. If you're agreeable to be around, passionate about something, and just show up everyday, eventually something is likely to happen.
As someone who has worked in the music sphere with many hats over the past few decades: her best shot is to get people talking about her, perhaps find some local musicians she likes and offer cheap\free recordings to fill in her portfolio and get that word of mouth started.
Successful people in the music world (both on and off stage) HAVE to mingle with musicians (not other engineers) heavily to get noticed and recommended
I applied to 100+ places in 2005. Took a job an hour from home for a year and half. Eventually found something closer to home. You take what you can find at the time until you find where you want to be
I'm from the UK and another age 8)
I applied for about 50+ jobs as a graduate engineer in 1991. Back then you wrote letters. Hmmm: You printed letters - mail merge was a thing.
You signed each one by hand, with a quill pen and used a wax seal and cast a Spell of Engagement.
OK, you signed your covering letter with a pen (might be a Biro but I did use a Parker and Quink, myself) You also had to put your covering letter and curriculum vitae (CV == resume) in an envelope and pop a stamp on it (2nd class) and post it. None of that Linked In bollocks.
Your covering letter would be bespoke to the company approached. You did some research and mentioned something pertinent.
Nowadays I'm the employer.
Wow!
I applied over and over using Monster dot com.
Don't forget the specialty resume paper.
Without a portfolio it will be difficult.
Would recommend joining a local film club, and get a few small projects done. Additionally, volunteer with local church events, or regular city music festivals.
Also, could join the local union intake for the production studios. It will be awful until one gets the base hours completed, but it is a feast or famine kind of work schedule some can tolerate. Fine work if you are still a kid.
Finding stuff online is usually a fools errand these days mostly due to "AI" data mining operations, or outright cons. Best of luck =3
The key, for me, was to get a computer. Once I had that, the world opened up.
It allowed me to "get my hands dirty," and experiment, as well as build a portfolio.
To this day, I have a large amount of public code. It's a habit that I've had, all my adult life.
The answer to AI resume filter is AI, if you are not utilizing it as part of your job application process to magnify your output then you are likely going to get bottlenecked from the supply side of the market.
part of this I understand is survival. And I understand why you do this.
The other part of this is why it's so frustrating for me to find the right person. Everybody's resume looks perfect for the role, and I have to waste 30-45 mins digging into their actual experience. You have done yourself a great disservice by wasting that time sitting in an interview you were not qualified for, and worse still I always feel there are other, more qualified people, who I have missed/passed over their resume since it wasn't AI tuned.
Sincerely, I don't know how t make this better.
I understand your frustration and i hope to have a earnest discussion on this.
One of the 3 jobs require hiring other developers. I don't find it difficult at all. I have my own intuition and technique I rely on. If you are wasting 30~45 minutes on a resume, you are probably chasing the wrong signals. It's not my fault.
> You have done yourself a great disservice by wasting that time sitting in an interview you were not qualified for, and worse still I always feel there are other, more qualified people, who I have missed/passed over their resume since it wasn't AI tuned.
How can I know if I meet the prospective employee's criteria or not before I do the interview? How am I to be held reliable for other people's failure to make themselves visible or your frankly your lack of skill at recruiment?
It's convenient to blame AI for any shortcomings these days but if you don't know what you are doing, you were always going to reach for something external something imagined to deflect your own areas that need improvement.
Why'd people downvote this? The minimum you need to be doing is pasting role descriptions and your résumé into ChatGPT and asking: should I hire this person? Because that's what every company's HR department is doing (automatically) and if the answer is no, then you may as well not bother sending the application. Or you could tweak it until it says yes.
I think earlier there were few HN users who didn't like my opinions on another thread, came here to flag and downvote my comments and leave rather mean replies all over my profile. I don't think much of it and I forgive people who do it.
Or maybe there really are people who think its okay to use AI to hire/filter candidates but not when candidates use AI to optimize to get around that screen. Using AI, I've been able to land several interviews and work 3 jobs remotely currently without much effort.
I applied to 1000 jobs over the year
17 interviews
5 offers
I accepted 3 of them and work 16 hours a day. So thats roughly 5 hours of deep work per day. if I wasn't remote working then the extra 3~5 hours would've been spent on commute, figuring out where to eat, silly banters with coworkers or office politics and just non-essential stuff that anti-remote people advocate for.
I would accepted all 5 if I could but its just impossible to fit more than 3 stand up meetings in different time zones. It's also tricky at times to manage schedule, you have to keep your work space segregated.
So it's a combination of Resume strength (don't spend too much time on polishing it with AI as it can't replace experience) and market demand (really question if you have anything special)
Don't get discouraged brother! I hope this can help you.
where is the fraud ? you are making outlandish accusations.
how am I to blame you cant work remotely ? I dont even know if you work!
> because you wished death upon a member of this community in an earlier comment
where did i say this ? this is getting weird now. can you please follow HN guidelines and keep discussions relevant ?
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Extreme mental clarity in "Eventually, she told me that it made more sense for me to quit my job while she worked, so that I could spend all of my free time trying to get another tech job".
I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
> I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
I know a couple people who recovered from addiction (and lost a few who sadly couldn’t).
They’re just people from all walks of life. There are a lot of stereotypes about addicts, but drug addiction can hit anyone. The first few people I knew who became addicts were actually from good families, were educated, had good career prospects, and were happy people. They thought addiction didn’t apply to them because they were too smart or happy or wealthy. In my opinion, those stereotypes made them more vulnerable to letting their guard down and thinking they were going to use the drugs smartly.
Most of them are recovered now and back on track, minus a large chunk of their younger years and a trail of destroyed relationships and wasted opportunities. You wouldn’t peg them as former addicts, though. They’re just people.
I grew up solidly middle class, even went to a good private school. A couple of my friends got ripped off by an addict that ran in our social circle who had the same background. They couldn't find the person, but they were so angry that they looked up the parents' address and went to confront them, assuming they'd be like bad people or something or had failed to raise their kid right. Instead both parents were incredibly mild and apologetic, and basically said, "We don't know what happened to our child and where it all went wrong." My friends felt very ashamed, apologized and left them in peace. It's a really tragic thing, and it's not just a cliche that it can happen to anyone.
> I could've never imagined long-term-thinking like this from a former addict.
Nothing personal, but you are part of the problem here. You are why these stories are so rare and difficult to achieve. Not out of malice on your part, most likely. But addicts are not humans to you. Please rethink some things.
Thank you for sharing. Stories like yours remind us that there is good in the world, and even if it isn’t everywhere, it is still worth cultivating.
I’m a software engineer née scientist, but my spouse is a therapist who specializes in addiction. They (and I!) cherish stories like yours because we had seen up-close the struggle that so many people face.
Thank you!!
Many very interesting stories here of people that took similar paths. As the parent of a teenager that used to be an absolute model student, but recently (last year) started rebellious behaviour, tanking their academics with it, I'm curious how many with similar stories think they would have or could have taken a different path with better or different parental support?
We're trying our very best to support and guide without shaming. The difficult part is the influence of friends, specifically a boyfriend, that were convinced led to much of this. Forbidding the relationship is not going to have the right effect. So we're trying to manage it with rules to try and prevent the opportunity to make bad decisions. And talking a lot about honesty, values and respect. There's still respect in our relationship, and I feel that's the key for us to be able to support her.
Please don't get a motorcycle:
A good felon buddy of mine has been out now for 4 years. He slowly built a car repair business, with steady clientele, and got his life back on track – including reasonable sobriety and a steady relationship. He and his girl would cruise around often, enjoying their newfound happiness.
Last week he totaled his Harley and his body (destroyed bike, multiple broken bones). Total reset. He now gets PTSD whenever a Harley revvs by passing... physically cannot work.
Please don't get a motorcycle.
I’m sorry if i’m missing something… what does this have to do with his story other than addiction and felony?
(fwiw i agree regardless, don’t get a motorcycle, lost too many friends to accidents or the following addiction)
The wrecklessness which brings some people into prison, is what brings them & others lusting towards motorcycle culture, often shortly upon release. Something something something anti-social something.
I'm just offering real-world advice after witnessing all the broken bones and jerked roadrash upon this tattoo'd convict's broken body. Shouldn't be alive.
Billions of people have a motorcycle globally... Some anecdote from a chronically motorcycle adverse culture (US) doesn't mean a whole mean of transport is invalid...
I'd much rather be on a freeway at 60+ MPH surrounded by 2.5 ton vehicles with poor visibility than riding an urban street. New riders are rightly intimidated by the freeways (they're fast, they're big), but they're far, far safer than the street with all of the starting, stopping, hard corners, folks turning onto the street, and, of course, the king of bike slayers, the "I didn't see them" left turn.
Not to mention all the junk on the streets: the oil, anti-freeze, gravel, wet painted turn arrows.
When freeways become unsafe is when the loose nut behind the handlebars decides to wick it up and just "go around all of these big slow things". But that's not the freeways fault.
First year/10,000 miles is the hardest. But the foundational rules apply: Wear the gear, slow down, don't ride impaired (drunk, high, tired...).
Lightning strikes, it sucks. But, anecdotally, my worst motor vehicle injury was while a passenger in a modern car when my friend drove into a left turning vehicle. "Fender bender", "no biggie". Chronic, notable, back pain ever since. Worst than anything I've ever suffered on a motorcycle.
>That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
Same with anything in life.
Same with a car, just less so. Of course you could also stay at home, wearing protective bumper suit 24/7 (and can still die from any number of things anyway).
At some point there's a tradeoff people make. Some people make it where the tradeoff slider says "motorcycle", rather than stop at "car". And I'm not talking a tiny niche, but about 1-1.2 billion people globally.
> That's the thing. On a bike you can do everything right and still lose.
Same with a car, or anything really.
The point of parent stands, globally there are billions of people going through their lives with motorcycles as their main vehicles, yet aren't involved in any life-changing accidents.
Some places are more dangerous than others, probably places that doesn't have this already motorcycle-heavy culture, like other countries in the world, has a higher incident rate and more severe accidents, as drivers aren't aware of how motorcycles usually operate.
Get a dirt bike. 10X more fun than street riding and much safer.
The issue is the bodily risk of injury or death compared to nearly any other routine transportation or sporting activity: https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/motorcy...
Probably depends on the locale. In Europe, riding a moped in a big city is a way to drastically cut your commute compared to driving a car. It's not exactly dangerous when all the other road users are moving at 5m/min, and being able to just skip all the traffic jams is a godsend. By car, my trip to the office was about 45min - it was 15min on a moped, a stop at a shop for some snacks included. And that's with riding speed never exceeding 50km/h.
I had two accidents during my 5 years of commuting, and both times I only got minor scratches and had to replace my shoes. Both happened at speeds a determined bicycle rider could achieve, but I suspect I wouldn't be as well protected on a bicycle (both the machine itself and the protective gear tend to be much lighter there than on a moped). If I needed to do that again, I'd buy a model with two wheels at the front, which would have prevented both accidents - though I'm not sure if added stability wouldn't encourage me to ride faster.
So it's pretty specific, but if you're somewhere where driving culture is not too cutthroat, the roads can support single-track vehicles, and the traffic rather than actual distance is the limiting factor - owning a bike can be an objectively better option.
I'm a motorcyclists. We usually refer to the smaller bikes as "motorbikes". Two wheels in the west is usually a hobby. In other parts of the world it might be a necessity, they don't do it for the pleasure. A lot of people forget this.
And thank God for it.
If every scooter rider in Taipei had a car, the city traffic would move a meter a day.
It's also about convenience, btw, not just cost. It's basically impossible to park a car here. Scooters are also difficult but at least possible.
A huge chunk of people here just take public transit now, as it should be.
yeah I think you have PTSD from your friends accident.
Not all bike owners and riders have a shady history or risk taking behavior (aside from riding a motrobike).
He's just pointing out that after putting so much work into getting their life turned around it can easy be ruined by indulging in high risk behavior.
It's not bad advice, just unlikely to land. Thrill seekers seek thrills.
Have you ever been on a motorcycle?
Closest feeling you can get to flying and a helluva lot cheaper.
Bike costs are line noise, (cheap!) planes I fly are better part of $200 an hour.
I get what you're saying though. Barely been on bike since latest baby and wondering if I should just sell them for now.
As much as I miss riding and wife misses riding with me, if the worst were to happen, yikes.
> Closest feeling you can get to flying
I’d say this is a strong case against getting one for anyone who has struggled with addiction. In my experience a part of the constant battle is a difficult relationship with sources of stimulation.
I’ll second this. Back in the 90s when my addict brain was in full flight, I had a street bike for a year. There was not a single ride when I didn’t massively exceed the speed limit and ride recklessly. I loved it! Lucky to be alive. Lucky I had a partner who convinced me to sell it after our first child was born.
Having said all that and despite being in recovery for many years... I still lust after the feeling of completely unfettered freedom being on a bike on an open road. Before I bought my bike a friend had warned me that once you ride, you’ll never not want to ride. He was right.
Same. I got spooked after a car pulled out on the country highway I was doing 160 on. Then ran out of money and sold it. I just rode my Dads Harley, first ride in 20 years. Was nice but I’m good. I have a longboard and a little hill once in a while gives me the occasional adrenaline rush I crave.
With a child it's easy to always justify spending the money on something else. I also miss the machine's simplicity and ease to work on.
While it probably sounds crazy, owning a tractor is almost as good. There are even more mechanical widgets to play with and it is dead simple and easy to work on like a motorcycle. I still miss the motorcycle but now I can actually do useful work while somewhat scratching the itch.
>Have you ever been on a motorcycle?
Absolutely. Broken bones, and all.
----
>wondering if I should just sell them for now
>if the worst were to happen, yikes
Listen to yourself, Papa.
----
It's a young (dumb) man's game.
Motorcycles are ridiculously fun but yeah, if you have anything in your life worth preserving or sticking around for, it's statistically a pretty awful decision.
>Motorcycles are ... statistically a pretty awful decision.
This has been my favorite sentence (so far) in this discussion – whatever one's opinion is on motorcycling. Capital 't' Truth.
----
Thirty years ago, my mother gave me some small amount of money to NOT ride a motorcycle on roadways until after she died. Being young and broke, I took the money. stopped riding.
After she died, I had aged just enough to realize that I didn't actually want to ride motorcycles on-road, anymore. Even after decades of wanting to...
Somehow mama-up-there knew I'd eventually grow up, and it only cost her a few hundred dollars [to not have to witness my motorcycle accident (while alive, nor ever from-above)].
Thanks for sharing!
What are your thoughts on Roller Coasters? Hit a good theme park, ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed within a couple of hours.
I can't help but feel riding one (Roller Coaster) is much more optimal than $200/hr flying a plane, and much safer than a motorcycle, even if you rented vs purchase one.
> ride maybe 6 with your eyes closed
That’s like telling a skydiver to go ride the Drop Tower (or whatever the ride is that drops you straight down).
Not only is the experience different, but you aren’t in control. You aren’t controlling what’s happening.
For me a big part of the enjoyment comes from being in control of the bike.
Personally I would get zero enjoyment riding as a passenger on a bike. The thrill comes from riding and maneuvering the bike, not just going fast.
> For me a big part of the enjoyment comes from being in control of the bike.
Yes. Chasing perfection every time.
How smoothly can you roll out of this corner. How perfect a line can you take. How smoothly can you shift up or rev match and shift down.
I don't think I've ever been a passenger. My young wife enjoyed riding with me before our youngest came.
So an important invention that would save lives is a combined bumper cars + rollercoaster. Like the Witching Waves but faster.
Great America gold pass holder for many years.
It's a thrill for sure. Mostly on the smaller coasters thee days because of the kids.
I've ridden a bike and I've also jumped out of an airplane. One of these is a lot closer to flying than the other, and it's not the one you suggested.
> Closest feeling you can get to flying and a helluva lot cheaper.
Hah, that's funny for someone who got into FPV quadcopters recently and just passed his motorcycle license. I might have a problem.
I fly RC planes. I've done a bit of RC FPV with monitors never tried goggles or quads though.
Yeah, I think this is the point. It's a "legal high" of sorts and a dangerous one. That flying feeling is addictive. Some are lucky enough to grow out of it, some aren't.
EUC or FPV are closer, FPV is also safer..
if you do, I’d recommend taking motorcycle safety courses on a regular cadence in order to practice your skills. even if you’re a regular rider it’s great to learn the limits of your bike and do emergency maneuvers in a controlled environment
there’s lots offered near the bay area (where I’m from) and they don’t cost that much for what you’re getting in return
I ride. No way in hell I'd ride in the US.
That's horrible but also a stark reminder for how quickly life can change for any one of us...
Neither of us have health insurance (forty-something Americans -- USA! USA! USA!). My helpfulness towards him mostly knowing he has nobody else to help him (ER already stabilized him post-accident, plus another trip for sepsis). Also, I love dogs.
This has been a very terrible and very real lesson in mortality. Wish we had some basic social safety nets for middle-aged unemployables (e.g. single-payer healthcare).
True but a motorcycle is basically 100% given that you will crash and have bad injuries.
There are old riders and there are bold riders...
But somehow no old bold riders.
It's hardly any given. You can just ride properly.
In other countries they are a huge means of transport.
Like how if you ride in a car, or a bicycle, or walk as a pedestrian, then everyone else on the road is not allowed to hit you by the laws of physics.
"Oh, but this is acceptable risk"
Well, for billions, a motorcycle is too.
You can drive like a saint, you will still get plowed by someone who is dumb, or just on their phone. It's over!
It's a risky activity, yes, but lets not forget metropolitan areas in other countries are shock filled with motorcycles and most people live their entire life without being involved in any majorly serious accidents.
No, I'm talking about motorcycles traveling ~50mph surrounded by other motorcycles, cars, trucks and whatever else goes on around and in metropolitan areas, even in countries in Europe.
From time spent living in the Philippines I have no idea what they're even on about. Sometimes I watched the local news and it was absolutely plastered with endless mass death of motorcyclists. Life is just cheap in south east asia so when a gazillion people get splattered on their bike no one thinks too much about it, it's just the risk of doing the business.
100% given? Lol
You could make a similar argument for bicycles.
Apparently the numbers for bicycles are a bit better, even in adjusted terms, but still. They're very unsafe in general.
There’s a study demonstrating life expectancy of 3+ years for bicycle Paris commuters (2+ for public transport) compared to cars. They didn’t evaluate motorbike.
The effect on physical and psychic health largely outweighs (sometimes to x30) the risk of accidents and pollution disease.
(2012, french) https://www.ors-idf.org/nos-travaux/publications/les-benefic...
It's a lot easier to ride recklessly on a motorcycle than an ordinary bike. I suppose mopeds/motor scooters (especially electric ones) are the sensible middle-of-the-road option.
I lost a good friend, a cycling partner, when she was hit by a car. I think she was a Cat 3 or 4 racer. Talented rider.
I haven’t ridden on the road since. Just no joy in riding anymore if it just takes one careless individual on a cell phone…
Every so often I think about linking up with a group ride again or even going to a spin class, but I just don’t see the fun in it anymore.
>I haven’t ridden on the road since.
It's laughable how proud some cyclists become when they think a painted stripe will somehow protect them from cellphoned sharks.
Obviously US bicycling infrastructure is laughably dangerous, and nobody deserves full-blame for exercising their legal rights upon roadways -- but e.g: biking up Lookout Mountain's shoulderless 2-lane highway is. stupid.ly common. These are tourist roadways winding through a mountainrange – are you cyclist's suicidal, or just hubric? Nobody knows where they are, and your dumb_ass is in the blindcurve going 2mph.
Your legal right #RIP
Indeed.
I sometimes lament that I wish I could ride in a group again, but it’s such a hurdle to get over mentally for me.
It is a lot of fun having camaraderie with similarly skilled riders hammering it out in the big ring for two hours, but just never have been able to get back to that place where I’m comfortable enough to do it.
Edit: oh, rereading your comment… my friend was not at fault in her crash. She was a careful rider just out for a spin and happened to cross paths with the wrong idiot who was distracted and veered onto the shoulder. I was expressing sadness that that is all it took to end her life.
Indeed.
Even as a pedestrian, I hate crossing a small road using crosswalks at a 4 way stop.
More than once, I’ve been nearly run over — even by vehicles that came to a complete stop.
Others were too distracted and plowed nonstop going 40+mph through the 4way stop.
I actually prefer to cross in the middle of the road on my own terms.
People do advocate for separated bike paths and concrete barriers between bike lanes and car lanes.
Perhaps we could move away from victim blaming, the same way we've moved away from blaming assaulted women for dressing a certain way.
I do wonder how much to trust averages on these statistics. I observe that I am much more risk averse than the average cyclist in my city. Perhaps my risk is really much lower, conditional on that knowledge?
I am very risk averse person and I won't ride a bike in LA. In a city with proper infrastructure I would love to.
In both cases the reasons often come back to the average motorcyclist and bicycle rider abjectly REFUSING to learn or respect road laws.
I live in a non-California state and I'm shocked whenever I see a motorcyclist who doesn't illegally lane split, who maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate), etc. Plus, most of them aren't even good at choosing leather jackets (not enough schotts or even made in Japan actual horsehide, lots of slop non-protective because most of these people are poor from the Harley purchase) and they don't wear proper protective heavy bottoms (i.e. leather/kevlar pants or HEAVY selvedge denim like 25 oz+). Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang.
Similarly, half or more of the cyclists in your average complete streets/walkable cities liberal area either 1. actually don't have a drivers license and are thus oblivious to road laws when they routinely get on the road, 2. refuse to use a helmet/put lights on at night/hand signal when turning, and 3. refuse to use perfectly good empty sidewalks (yes its legal here to bike on the sidewalk) to cycle on when possible.
I see this shit all the time, and I understand why they end up as roadkill time-and-time again. Keep winning Darwin awards. My heart goes out to those who legitimately did everything right and ends up squashed anyway, but the myriad number of idiots ruins it for the victims.
I actually don't know which makes me more scared to see on the road, a clapped out Nissan/dodge, a Harley rider, or a cyclist. At least the cyclists and nissan drivers are probably young and thus far more alert than the average geriatric who thinks they're so cool for owning the worlds most gaudy motorcycle.
Yeah man, it's the cyclists who are the problem, right? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39986875/
I grew up riding dirtbikes in a non-helmet-required US state.
>Many don't wear helmets because doing so might make them look like "fairies" to their friends in the outlaw biker gang.
I now live in a state which requires helmets for all riders.
This is a good idea – for exactly the reason you stated.
> maintains a standard following distance (ideally 3 car lengths on an interstate)
3 car lengths is a ridiculously too close following distance at freeway speeds.
HD riders are known for not using decent safety equipment and that bullshit open helmet or none.
A freaking motorcycle with 300+ kilos moving ate highway speeds or more.
He had a fully-enclosed helmet, was wearing leathers and boots, and has years of experience. Was legitimately sober (I talked with him right before he left). One hand now looks like a grimreaper's bones, sticking out from blood-caked jerkybits.
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Certainly speed was a factor but isn't that why ya'll ride?
Well, I don’t speed. Had a accident once that made me learn the lesson.
It's only been a week; right?
Right; he is fucked up. Girl is now gone, having caught charges herself (stabbed him because he refuses most pain killers and is in a lot of pain right now//ashole).
So sad to see; I am walking his dogs; last time I saw him I said "I am just worried that this will make you spin out, again."
Definitely helped me continue deciding not to get a motorcycle, myself.
Motorcycles aren't invulnerable 3 ton steel tanks but the stats and anecdotes are deceptive. They're really not that bad if you're not a moron, even if you're mostly worried about other road users. The stat are wildly bimodal.
~30% of deaths involve drunk riding
~30% of deaths involve not wearing any helmet (let alone full face ECE 22.06 rated ones or any other gear at all)
~30% of deaths involve someone with no motorcycle licence.
These aren't all mutually exclusive obviously, rather the Venn diagram probably looks rather...circular.
The issue isn't so much everyone trying to kill you, you can fix a lot of the visibility issues and you have some additional options if someone is about to hit you. The problem is that two wheels make for a VERY dynamic system and you're managing two different brakes with weight shifting between two wheels based on your inputs. To that end ABS and TCS are absolutely huge, IIRC something like >60% safety improvement.
Tldr don't buy an old retro bike with no safety systems and ride it drunk without a license or gear, you'll continue to pad the numbers.
Isn’t this suggesting that the majority of motorbike deaths are licensed, sober, safety-geared riders?
I absolutely love statistics – be careful with inferrences, though.
This rider (I described above) was
~sober
~helmetted (fully faced)
~licensed
Well since we're doing anecdotes, I'm a sober, fully helmeted, geared rider with 8 years and tens of thousands of miles under my tires. I've had two incidents:
1. I fell over at a stop sign on a canted hill while stopped because the rented Harley was so fucking big. I immediately returned it and will never ride a Harley again, those things suck.
2. I stupidly stopped just before the crest of a gravel road because I couldn't determine the best path (should have just trusted my tires and picked one), started sliding backwards. Rather than spin my tires and risk shooting off, or slide backwards into the unknown, I just tipped over and rolled off the bike.
No injuries either times. No at speed near misses. I have a simple rule: if I'm not 100% sure, I don't do it. A pass, a light, an intersection, when in doubt, I slow down, or stop, or hang out where I am in a lane.
Maybe one day I'll get taken out at a stop light or something random like that but the joy that riding has brought me I just can't give up. Exploring the world on a motorcycle is just amazing.
All activities come with risks. Motorcycling is up there but so is rock climbing, kayaking, rafting, hiking, bicycling, swimming - all activities I personally know someone who has been severely injured doing. You take precautions but you gotta live.
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as someone who just got back from a nice motorcycle group ride: lol
Stay safe, young grasshopper.
You can be the best rider in the world and still have a bad day/week/month/year/life.
Can never predict your future. Enjoy what you will, when you can. I was in a motorcycle accident in 2021, TBI, hospitalized for 3mo, induced coma, and rehab for 9 months after.
I am back on the horse. It is just a zen and still relaxing time, albeit more anxiety while riding, than before. Thankful I can still ride, and I do.
You were in a crash sir.
I'm glad you're better. Tenacity.
Safest travels. Glad to hear you humped back on 'er.
And you can be the best car driver and still sway off or have some idiot crash into you head-on or miss a red light...
>surrounded by a cage
THIS is the major difference, protecting even the best motorcyclist's abilities.
Some US highways are posted at 85mph [137km/h] – unprotected flesh doesn't stand a chance!
I don't see the appeal of group rides myself. Always seems to be some stupid shit happening.
Half of the group rides I see are to "honor" or "remember " a rider who died doing something stupid as well.
That's a bit like saying "I don't wear a seatbelt when driving a car, but I've never had a problem."
The previous is a bit like saying "My pal got hurt in a car crash, never get a car".
And then when almost every person says that, it turns out to be good advice. But we have statistics on this!
Get a motorcycle. Definitely don't get a HD though.
Powerful. Thank you for sharing.
Had to look away to stop from tearing up in Panera a few times at the end.
Sending this to my sister who has had struggles like this. She recently finished her BS and hopes to be an counselor or therapist after finishing her masters.
Nice story, I don't personally agree with your choices but you are now back on the straight and narrow, big kudos to you and your wife.
Thanks for sharing this story and congratulations on finding a way back up. So many people never do.
> people willing to judge me by what I could do next instead of only by what I had done before
I think this is a really tragic take so common in the United States. It feels like, at least to me, that societal trust has broken down so much that people are broadly unwilling to take a chance on anyone.
Jail is supposed to mean you paid your debt to society. It's supposed to say 'okay, you've made a mistake, have had time to ruminate on it, now go forth and prosper.' It's not retribution or vengeance, or at least it shouldn't be - especially for non-violent crimes.
I'm truly glad you were fortunate and strong enough to climb out. I wish that this was a more common story.
Thanks for sharing, Gavin.
Can relate. Been 45 years, for me. Got my act together at 18, but before that...
Your compassionate and honest story will, I hope, bear much fruit. You write well..very readable and engaging.
How can someone get up in such a difficult situation? That's impressive
Survivorship bias... many people don't, the stories of the few that do are impressive and worthy of hearing.
I’m curious (as a recovered alcoholic myself) how you got sober.
I'll be honest, a lot of it was my wife. And also hitting my lowest bottom after becoming homeless and penniless.
So a combination of looking at what I had done to myself + everyone around me and going "what the fuck." and my ever-vigilant wife who knew I had the capacity and desire to get better.
For me it really took literally losing everything.
Recovered opiate addict and for me it was a mix of everything: Some advice I had gotten from NA meetings, finally doing something about the other mental health issues I was dealing with, and most importantly: medications that prevented me from using (methadone/suboxone).
It was definitely a process (that included multiple jail stints and only god knows how many treatment centers), but 10 years later life is pretty awesome.
I think the stigma around methadone is causing a ton of harm. Having a program where you quite literally have to show up every day, take drug tests, and get counseling was really important.
the secret is to hate drinking and never drink
That would make sense, wouldn't it?
"Just say no"?
Sadly, it doesn't work. If you're an addict, you'll end up manifesting in one way, or many ways. Drugs aren't the only way that it expresses itself.
I hate alcohol. I always have. The taste makes me sick. The best way to ruin a dessert, is to pour expensive booze on it.
That didn't stop me from becoming a prize-winning lush, though.
The thing about addiction, is that it just doesn't make sense. It can't be understood, when looked at, through a rational lens.
That's a big reason that Recovery is difficult. It's also often badly supported by family members, who don't understand the mechanisms.
But that's a long story, for other venues. I am happy to read his story, and sincerely wish him luck.
I am recovering alcoholic and almost have two years sober but I can only imagine how hard it would be to quit if you loved alcohol, I hated it but was just physically addicted or something, just could not stop it was too fun, I have to use thc only now which has its own issues but will not affect my health in same way as alcohol did. Alcohol is too fun for me and hurts my family a lot
I apologize in advance for rambling. I never comment or post anywhere, but your post motivated me to share part of my story. I very much relate to the feeling that sharing can be too personal and too easy to misread.
Thank you for sharing. It’s refreshing to see that there are people who will take a chance on you. Your story helps with the burnout of pushing through with little to no results and exponentially diminishing resources.
I haven’t been so lucky, I joined a tiny startup in 2018 that shut down a year later, landed contract work in 2019 that was meant to convert into full-time, but was let go due to the pandemic right before converting. My most recent employer fired me on christmas of 2022.
I had a falling out with friends because they wouldn’t refer me for any role including tech sales. My uni wouldn't consider me for a master's degree because my microprocessor architecture professor wasn't "comfortable" writing a rec letter despite me sitting front of class and getting an A, all while practically begging students to apply (all 2/2 people that applied got into the program). Even in grade school my 2nd grade teacher was fired for lying to my parents that I was underperforming in school and that I needed to get kicked out of the talented and gifted program and repeat the grade. I still don't know what to make of all of this.
I haven’t been able to land phone screenings, let alone a first round interview anywhere. I am having a hard time getting minimum wage work due to being "over-qualified". I've been priced out of my hometown. I’ve completed web development, data science, and cloud infra bootcamps as a way to up-skill while also having a degree in electrical engineering. I would consider myself adaptable: I've worked in designing/improving electrical hardware, reverse engineering, web, mobile.
I am first-gen American, grew up homeless, but received a world-class education. Sometimes I wonder if I’m on a blacklist somewhere, or if I need to fall further for something to finally click. I guess I’m just having a really long bad luck streak, so here’s to hoping something better is around the corner!
Shoutout to the author. I don't think I've met you, but I'm proud of you. What you've done is not easy. Neither is talking about it.
I've not had nearly the adversity of the author, but I do know a little bit about what it's like to have an alternative background that makes companies not want to take a chance on you. It motivates you to take advantage of the chances you're given. The first time someone gave me a job, I felt so utterly grateful that I worked twice as hard as most and complained half as much. You could cynically call that exploitation, but I didn't see it that way.
When I came into a position to make my own hiring calls, I tried paying that forward, and I got some great employees from it. Arguably a couple duds as well, but I never regretted giving the chance.
Shout out to Hasura as well, btw. I've encountered their leadership team a couple times and everything about them has screamed integrity. It did not surprise me to hear that they are part of this story.
> When I came into a position to make my own hiring calls, I tried paying that forward, and I got some great employees from it. Arguably a couple duds as well, but I never regretting giving the chance.
Thanks. At this point, I believe it's what I will look back on as my legacy. Software is ephemeral, but the people you build it with are what shape how you reflect on it.
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Amazing sorry — thanks for sharing
This is a great story, thanks for sharing.
I have to know: how is your (now wife) doing?
Thank you for asking. I didn't want to disclose it publicly, but when we met she was in a very bad place in life and actually had a planned suicide date.
It wasn't until years later she told me this.
We were able to send her back to university a second time to study something she is passionate about; she has a great support network of friends and (my) family. (Her family are drug addicts and gang members, so my family has sort of adopted her. It's a bit sad but none of her family were invited to our wedding.)
She's unemployed, but she's trying, and she says she never imagined that she could be so lucky in life.
You are very brave in sharing all of this and you, as anybody else in your position, absolutely deserve a promising second chance. Keep rocking!
Open source has changed the life of so many, from so many situations. We should be proud of our industry. Together we built something beautiful
> The beginning of the end: The day I bought an Adderall from a classmate. When that amphetamine feeling kicked-in, it was as if life was perfect for the first time. I was happy, confident, felt I could do anything.
You know, I had a similar experience, but in my case I got an appointment with a psychiatrist afterwards, described the experience in detail, was given a computer test, diagnosed with ADHD, and then given a prescription. (Also in my case, I learned Adderall doesn’t actually feel great or help you if you take too much).
Take care of your kids. The war on drugs is stupid. Etc.
Poor kid just had ADHD and his whole life got ruined tha is to backwards prohibition
>>> I cut the article out and put it in a documents folder.
Had to read this a couple of times, to let it sink in that he is cutting with scissors and placing this paper document in a manilla folder.
Is programming underrated art form when it comes to helping people come out of such situations? Addiction or depression.
It easier to get paid, you can be in a flow state for hours. Enough to forget about other addictions. and less likely to be high always while programming
Not really.
I'm a recovering addict, felon, and have depression (lucky me). And though there were times where I could work an entire weekend without stopping, it was always followed by 2-3 days of doing absolutely nothing because I was so dope sick/depressed. The worse my addiction got, the shorter the "flow" period and the longer the recovery period took.
I do think AI will eliminate software as a life path for folks like this.
wtf xd
Good idea
Is a success story line this still possible with coding assistants, or do they basically pull up the ladder that this guy climbed? I don't have enough insight into the job market right now to know.
these are my favorite stories from HN.
similarly, i loved the story of the guy who got busted for running an illegal sports streaming site and was able to build himself back up.
hats off to you for your sobriety
I feel like US is ridiculously hard on even low grade drugs. Half of my high school would have gone to prison in the US.
Sending a 14 year old convicted of drug crimes anywhere but a location that will help them is bizarre. Sending them to a max security anything leaves me speechless.
Yeah I feel like there's less discussion than I expected of how many different things had to be done utterly ass backwards wrong by society for this guy to have his downward spiral in the first place.
"AI Use Disclaimer: claude code was used to generate the OpenGraph SVG image.
No part of the prose was machine-generated. You will not find machine-written prose on this blog. I consider it deeply disrespectful."
I really like this disclaimer, by disclaiming that a single small thing was done with AI, you make very credible and notable that you did not use LLMs for the important parts.
(reviving an account this once to just say...) I've been lucky to work closely with Gavin at Hasura for years, and he is really a brilliant and versatile engineer, and is just a pleasure to work with. Great energy, down-to-earth, hilarious. If I had to assemble a "dream team" he would be on it for sure.
Thanks for sharing this part of your story dude!
I created this account to convey my sincere gratitude. I needed to see this today and you've given me inspiration.
That’s cool. Unfortunately, today, sobriety doesn’t guarantee that AI companies won’t kill off what’s left of your career (which somewhat weakens the incentives to do so). But congrats!
Have an upvote. Sobriety is an expectation. I will say though that people I’ve known who went through the journey are some of the smarter people I’ve met. Not all of them, but the whole numbing yourself because your brain can’t quite understand all the thoughts it has, that’s a real thing. Probably sounds insane, but it’s real.
> sobriety doesn’t guarantee that AI companies won’t kill off what’s left of your career
The ironic thing is, I work for one of those "AI Companies" ;^)
Claude Code and Codex have done most of my work for the last year, and with the pace of AI improvement, I'm not sure that you'd need (or even want) me in the mix.
From a business perspective, it makes a lot of financial sense, too.
I'm sure it's a limited amount of time before I'm dead weight, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, and I'll figure something out if/when it happens =)
My lived experience doesn’t care what the downvotes say (many here are privileged, after all), and it is only a matter of time imo unless something is done about the industry to change course.
> unless something is done about the industry to change course
There will be no change of course, sadly.
I see karma as form of a currency to afford getting downvoted. I actually don't mind the downvotes especially when it's followed by a comment on why. Helps me see parts I've missed.
Goes both ways, if you're afraid of getting downvoted you might never find out that people actually agree with you, same goes with traffic tickets sometimes they don't make sense especially related to parking in crowded cities and ebikes, as long as you're not an asshole about it it's fine.
I find the downvotes excessive for this kind of thing. They are basically a censorship mechanism, enough downvotes and a comment will basically disappear. I've used it about twice since I got the ability several years ago, and both times it was somebody promoting a Trump-related conspiracy theory.
Thank you for sharing your story! I wish you continued success. Hope you keep building and keep inspiring
I feel happiness reading stories like this. You proved to the world that you can become something great even when all the cards are stacked against you. I often feel despair when I think about where our society is heading, but there will always be people like you who are there to push back against all the wrongs in the world and make the best out of it.
I'm glad! It sounds really corny, but someone once told me "The only thing you can choose in life is your attitude."
Sometimes it felt like I'd never get a break, things wouldn't get better. But I tried to tell myself "Every occurrence in life is a numbers game. Against tiny odds, eventually enough attempts statistically OUGHT to pay off."
And the alternative is bleak, sort of sulking in this pit of despair without hope for tomorrow.
This was really encouraging to read. Appreciate the honesty and vulnerability. Keeo going, keep sober, and I hope your future stays bright.
As others have said, thank you for sharing.
Every time I read stories like this my heart hurts. And I feel like I've been punched in the gut.
Every single time I read stories like this all my shit comes to the surface. Thank goodness for mental health professionals and prescription drugs.
No matter how I feel about your experiences, I want to know more. I want others to feel like they can share with people who are ready to listen and be supportive however we can.
>I was a model student up until around puberty and middle school. Then, I think a combination of being bullied for being overweight and teenage hormones, led me to be just the wrong combination of resentful, angry, unhappy, and rebellious.
Myself, but I was just depressive until I got a PC, then I became a half-Hikkikomori until by brain exploded and seeked some nice metalheads around.
Logos/God/whatever bless that guy who gave me a Glam Rock/Metal CD at age 19/20, it changed my life a little for the good.
Metal and computers saved my life.
Except that I'm still unemployed even if I did tons of stuff after the advance trade (basic OOP Java/C# courses, Lisp, a bit of Docker and such...)
I even did some pre-college Math (calculus, discrete Math...) but no luck. Living and growing up in Spain sucks because almost no one would believe you that people can be a self-apprentice, here people it's very social-bounded (X does course-> Y joins it too). That's it.
My mentality it's more Atlantic than Mediterranean and I always had tons of conflcts.
thanks for sharing, Gavin. I'm sure this alone will help open doors for many others.
have you been able to reconcile with your parents? thank you for sharing
I love this question! Because yes, this one has a happy ending =)
I had estranged my mother, didn't really talk to my adoptive father, and purposefully kept my maternal grandparents (who I am closest with) in the dark because I didn't want them to see me like this.
I also have 3 much younger sisters, who I didn't talk to for the same reasons as the grandparents.
I've made a HUGE effort to reconnect and make amends with my family. I'm on good terms with my parents and talk to both of them regularly, I explained to my grandparents after I got sober and visit them at least once a year, and I reconnected with my siblings who I now text regularly and we host a "sibling trip" where we get together over a weekend once each year.
I am very grateful that they saw my efforts and gave me a second chance. My oldest sister in particular was very wary.
See how easy it was to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
Good on him and shout out for Hasura as well, probably the most pleasant dev experience I had in past 10 years. It was so good, the startup I was at dropped it because CTO got scared that there was no work for the backend devs, ha.
Congratulations on your sobriety!!
Well done, mate.
I had less and less sympathy for the author the more I read.
Your life was easy. A constant stream of people willing to offer you places to stay, and you had zero trouble finding work. That was not my experience being poor - I remember a constant stream of rejections from supermarkets and hardware stores. And I was sober to boot.
Having no vehicle, she had to borrow the friend's bicycle and ride 30 minutes in the dark before work, and 30 minutes in the sweltering heat after work home
Couldn't read any more after this. 11 year old children literally do this to get to school, laughing and chatting.
Your life was incredibly easy and you still fucked it up.
Then go write a blog asshole
So this guy was buying fake MDMA and reselling it as actual MDMA? What a scum bag
No, try reading it again.
"a legal "Research Chemical" with effects similar to MDMA (Methylone/bk-MDMA)"
Someone that is quick to assume without reading could easily make this mistake.. there are my research chemicals that are not technically categorized and not MDMA.
Read about Sasha to start https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin
As a libertarian right leaning guy I opened your story with pessimism but I really enjoyed it and greatly appreciated the personal responsibility you took in your situation. People should be inspired by this - it’s precisely because of personal responsibility that you are so successful.
> it’s precisely because of personal responsibility that you are so successful.
No it's not. It's absolutely not personal responsibility that gets people through addiction.
And if you read the entire article, this should stand out:
> I don't tell this story because I think it is clean, heroic, or universally applicable -- It isn't. I made TERRIBLE choices. I hurt people who loved me. I wasted chances that other people would have killed for. And even when I finally started doing the right things, I still needed luck, help, timing, forgiveness, and people willing to judge me by what I could do next instead of only by what I had done before.
That doesn't sound like personal responsibility that sounds like having people around you that stick around even after you mess up.
I've been an addict for over 20 years (and spent the last 10 clean). I've been in close to a dozen treatment centers. What set me apart from the others (and why I technically "made" it) had very little to do with me. What set me apart was having an insane support system and grace from people who loved me.
I know a guy who bankrupted multiple businesses and is 34 time convicted felon and adjudicated rapist and he’s gone on to become president … don’t let your past control your future! /s
Sure, if you are in the same situation with access to loads of money and good connections, the sky's the limit.
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Sorry I'm not dead (yet), maybe next go-round of the universe?
What a fantastically small-minded perspective. What exactly do you think you're contributing to the conversation here?
I went to his profile and it's a pattern with him, low effort comments mixed with general rudeness
Got flagged for pointing this out.
He’s essentially telling this guy that he wishes he had been executed.
But your own view that we need to be tolerant and empathetic to drug use, drug dealers can't be criticized ? What possible contribution to society has your attitude made ?
So you start by essentially saying OP deserved to die and then you pivot to inventing a strawmen argument to argue against? This isn't Twitter, not sure what value you think you're adding here other than bitterness, anger, and hate.
> you start by essentially saying OP deserved to die
where did i say those words? Are you saying the victims of drug trafficking should suffer like OP did, make bad choices and die ?
By your own logic the man you 'commend' for turning his life around would be dead at 19 - every good thing he's done since, including the post you're replying to, exists only because nobody took your advice.
No, you are projecting your own opinion here. I've commended him for turning away from his wrong path while condemning him for his actions individually that have destroyed lives through the same exact suffering he experienced. I offered no advice.
The worldwide death penalty you're endorsing still kills him at 19, so you're commending a redemption your own proposal would have prevented.
A 14-year-old addict reselling Adderall to classmates to feed his own habit isn't a 'trafficker' who 'destroyed countless lives'
Just the kind of victim the system loves.
lol what?
You are what I've started to call "34yo Patrice".
34yo Patrice has a stable job, a fiancé and broadly speaking has his life in order.
Nobody in his circle knows he dropped out of high school, got in the wrong crowd and, inevitably, did time.
This archetype is a mix of several people I've met and I usually mention it when a younger person says this and that thing (e.g. dropping out of college) is the end of the world for them. In your 20s it commonly isn't and you can start from scratch - after a decade or so nobody will have any idea about this unless you tell them.
i’ve been through all of this, and it turned out fine. seriously people don’t hold a drug bust against you, if you can do the job. i’ve lived on the road, camped in Golden Gate Park, attended several Rainbow Gatherings, etc. after spending years in India as a monk, i couldn’t find a place in american society. i bootstrapped a new identity that let me live as a teacher and developer; but i had to move to Śrī Laṅkā to do it.
True, you can even get a government security clearance. They hold financial debts, gambling history, and dubious associations against you much more.
*Providing the drug use was short lived.
My war story from dot-com times is being asked by a (v well known and then horribly imploded) Bay Area start-up what about its hiring form would need to change for the UK (if I was to run the UK office)... So under the "bad things you've done" section I said to change the exclusion from "minor drug stuff" to "fixed-penalty motoring offences"...
Sweet Jesus. What a hell of a post! You need to turn this into a e-book or a series of blog posts. They would be a big hit on HN.
Looking In retrospect, if you were a policy maker today how would you try to prevent the new generation for having to go through this (today your path likely would not be viable due to fentanyl).
I guess one can only optimise the system for the majority following the beaten path. Some folks just have to find a way both through the world and through their own head.
> Some folks just have to find a way both through the world and through their own head
You need to stop seeing me so hard rn
Did he have to? Some of that sounds like choices, especially in the start.
Almost everything is a choice. The difference is that sometimes you're making a rational one and sometimes you only think you're making a rational one and to outsiders and in retrospect it obviously wasn't the best choice, or event a good choice.
There are two aspects to the type of question that was asked. How do you prevent people from ha I g to make choices which are rational and good for their options but still really bad overall, and how do you convinve/educate people about available options they weren't aware of so they don't make outright bad choices when better ones are available that they are unaware of.
There are many possible answers to "why did you take off to the west and ride trains and sleep in parks and steak to feed yourself", but most of them aren't "well I just felt like leaving my entirely stable, loving and supportive friends and family." What to an outsider seems like a poor choice to a specific person imight seem like the decision that saved their life, even in retrospect.
> you only think you're making a rational one and to outsiders and in retrospect
In retrospect? It's really not hard to determine before the fact that petty crime is not a road to good things.
We have ways to prevent people from going down this path. It's called enforcement. He was more or less allowed to steal and sleep in the parks. If there was strict enforcement, this wouldn't have been a medium term viable option. Doesn't have to be throw the person in prison for the rest of their life, but either accept help, go through the criminal justice system or figure out another way to contribute to society in a positive way. It sounds like the author at any point could have found some kind of employment, but chose this because it was viable. And society wasn't doing him any favors by looking the other way
> This question jumps past the more fundamental question of whether policymakers, and the government in general, should prevent people from making their own choices.
When your choices include terrorizing businesses and being a public nuisance to everyone else, then yes, government should prevent people from making those choices.
Why is the first beer the most critical choice?
Why isn’t the last beer the most critical one, for example?
I don't think humans are so straight forward. We have an instinctive nature to rebel that's not going anywhere, and we're all just so absurdly different, so what works for one person or family, may fail spectacularly for another. My opinion is that all you can do is be honest about things. DARE, for instance, ended up resulting in more kids trying drugs after all was said and done. It relied heavily on exaggeration and misleading statements - a lot like contemporary politics. And once people realized some of what was said was lies, the entire foundation fell apart and it all became seen as a joke.
So for instance I'll happily tell my kids that marijuana is enjoyable and relatively harmless in and of itself, yet you end up smelling bad, it ruins motivation, hurts your short-term memory, gives you the munchies, and is just generally is self-escapism, like most drugs. Gotta work on my exact pitch there, but that's the spirit of the point - honesty. They will make plenty of bad decisions in life, but I'd rather that with each one they see I was right, rather than see that I was lying or exaggerating - driving them further away from everything else I taught them.
Maybe also worth asking what he's doing along those lines as a father. Probably some interventions are in reach for the state, and there are some other things that parents are best positioned to do. He might have some insight into both.
(Lost my passwd to my throwaway so i had to create another, sorry) Me? I have nothing to offer. My elementary aged kids will be in middle school soon and I am not looking forward to having to try and keep them on the straight and narrow. At home my parents afforded me a long leash and I rejected most of what my superiors at school/etc fed me. As soon I was able, I GTFO. Took many risks and things worked out okay for me in the end. I could tell my kids to do the opposite but I'd be lying and they'd know it.
This is a good and balanced reply. My brother was much more rebellious than me when he was younger. Not as crazy as your first post, but crazy enough for our relatively conservative family. When he got married and had kids later, he is -- to my great surprise -- a very strict, conservative parent. He has his daughters on the straight and narrow path. Sometimes I wonder will they go crazy as soon as they got to uni (move away from home). I saw more than a few crack during my first year of uni, living in dorms. You can probably find some books or blogs that people have written about their own journey as a parent, especially when they had a rocky start in life as an adult.
I am not a parent, but I have observed that the best style of parents adapt to the natural personality of each child. For example, I was very contientious from early childhood (I assume that part was genetic), and my brother was exactly the opposite. My parents really had to work with him to get him to take school seriously. Fortunately, he has a naturally high IQ, so it wasn't so hard for him.
> Took many risks and things worked out okay for me in the end. I could tell my kids to do the opposite but I'd be lying and they'd know it.
"Do whatever you want and things will work out because it worked out for me" is not a good (or honest) message for children.
[survivor-bias-airplane.jpg]
> Took many risks and things worked out okay for me in the end. I could tell my kids to do the opposite but I'd be lying and they'd know it.
Why do you think they'd know it? Working out in the end for you was the less likely option. Everything is possible but if you manage to explain the likelihood of each outcome compared to the expected payoff it could make the case clearer. Not an easy thing when dealing with small kids. It's hard because even adults are blinded by survivorship bias. Kids are easy victims, they can all become Cristiano Ronaldo, they can all launch the unicorn startup after dropping out of school, etc.
> I have nothing to offer.
Kids need guidance whether you think they'll take it or not, especially at that age. It's up to you to strike the balance between guidance, trickery, heavy handed rules, something works. Your teachers probably didn't care enough and your parents couldn't find the right button because it's not an easy job but it doesn't mean you can't or worse, that you shouldn't even try because you "have nothing to offer".
(Lost my passwd to my throwaway so i had to create another, sorry)
I dont know if you intended to reply to the OP/author or my reply. In my case, I dodged hard drugs for $reasons and can safely say that I chose my own adventure. I was had anxiety and apprehension about status quo and what was expected of a HS graduate circa 2000 so I said F it and did my own thing.
Was there any bullying at school that kept you away from it? Or boredom? Or just culture ? Grade schools seem all right in the US. Ridiculous amounts of activities/sports right there, teachers are well paid (compared to the rest of the world), the program difficulty seem pretty chill for any kid that learned to read early enough.
(Lost my passwd to my throwaway so i had to create another, sorry)
No, mostly just American 90s suburban boredom and at-home dysfunction.
At around 12/13 my old siblings drug addiction began tearing my house/family apart. The only escape available to me at the time in my town was a nascent, opioid-fueled high school party scene. Other kids might have followed their brothers footsteps but computers and music really interested me. I retreated to my bedroom and dialup modem for the next 5 or so years. I discovered the local BBS scene and (via that) the internet. Likewise, discovered a lively punk music scene in my region. Both connected me to other like minded ppl in my region and beyond. Very thankful for that.
> Grade schools seem all right in the US.
My experience (and impression of others) is that sure, it's incredibly good by certain very basic metrics but that doesn't mean all participants find it desirable or even tolerable. I slogged through it for no reason other than that's just what was expected and I didn't see any realistic alternative but in retrospect I think I would have been better off dropping out and attending a community college (of course I could be wildly wrong about that).
> I slogged through it for no reason other than that's just what was expected and I didn't see any realistic alternative but in retrospect I think I would have been better off dropping out and attending a community college (of course I could be wildly wrong about that)
This is exactly where I zagged. To this day, I still think avoiding college was the best decision I've made in life. Both from the POV of finances and personal growth. I learned so much about the world and life between the ages of ~18-26. I did not own a computer or have internet access during any of it, and neither did most the ppl I knew. Feel very lucky I spent those years YOLO'ing it and not in front of a screen.
I was referring to K-12 there, not beyond. I found that I was much more compatible with the format, environment, and culture of academia and got a lot out of doing a bachelors. I expect I would have been better off omitting the US K-12 experience to the extent possible.
That said I also felt that many of the people I encountered there most likely weren't gaining enough for it to be worth the cost in time, money, and effort. I know some people who went the trade route straight out of highschool and provided that jobs were available it seems to have been a very good choice for most of them.
> Feel very lucky I spent those years YOLO'ing it and not in front of a screen.
Even in a STEM program I only spent a small fraction of study time in front of a screen. That said, the degree was indeed a huge time commitment overall.
Did you ever bounce around the crackmonkey list? nick and friends seemed to know people with similar backgrounds.
I did not but would not be surprised. Scattered among the survivalist, bomb makers, pedos and neo nazis of the early internet there were some amazing communities. I like to think that I found my ppl back then but maybe those ppl found me and set me on my way. Either way, I'm thankful
Your story also reminded me of the early LUG scene, distributed all over the world. We believed and all we had access to were the dirtiest ratshit computers but hey they could boot Slackware or Debian and maybe if you said the right incantation you could get that 10Mb card you got for free but was still the most valuable part to work with cat5 Ethernet so you could download stuff from a local sunsite mirror so you could join in the future.
That is an absolutely crazy story, I hope you have it written down somewhere besides HN comments lol
(Lost my passwd to my throwaway so i had to create another, sorry)
Nah, just throwaway here. A few tech/work friends know of it, most of my non-tech friends know of my background but most them have crazier stories. And those folks dont really understand what I do for work or how much money I'm making. I'm too much of a dirt bag for the tech world and too much of a yuppie for my old punk friends. Its double-sided imposter syndrome.
Impressive story. Here's a slightly off topic question. Are you hiring right now ? :) Foss work sounds fun.
I appreciate the stories. To some extent they are inspiring to read.
So... going by the story, I guess you never did go to the doctor to get diagnosed for adhd?
(Yeah, armchair doctor and all that. But doesn't make it wrong or at least worth a look.)
Nah, definitely not ADHD. Wrote that quickly from my phone, which is why it's so scatter brained.
Good if you're sure of it.
Fwiw, I didn't mention it because of your writing style at all, I wrote it because you literally said
> Couldn't sit still.
Also, for anyone curious, drug use and being in prison is much more common amongst adhd folk than the general population. A staggering 25% (approximately) of prison population is ADHD [1], far higher than the general population.
1 - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4301200/
And to whoever downvoted me, I've successfully "diagnosed" (read - identified) multiple friends already. NDs often have decent ND-radars.
Same here, I too feel the same. I don't look as if I am neuro divergent but I am slightly and have radar for others and have begun to tell people, "that person is not late or slow in the mind but that person is simply a neuro divergent and needs to be given chance or looked at differently" lot of neuro divergents have been discriminated against in the past. My one professor used to ask me, "Are you on drugs". No I never have. It's just lack of sleep in college days can otherwise make my lucid brain super foggy
Haha, I can relate. I was once straight up asked if I used cocaine by my caretakers when I was 16. I was simply sleep deprived. And needed sleep bad. My neurodivergence mostly manifests as a sleep problem, in terms of it being a clinical issue. In other areas of life they are simply quirks.
To get the whole discussion of “I have seen this behavior before. I know an addict when I see one”. It was embarrassing. And then to hear “you’re 16 and acting out your puberty”.
Adults are silly sometimes when they are convinced of something, and fucking persistent.
I've had a few people tell me that I definitely have ADHD, even an internal medicine doctor and a neuro radiology friend. But I always change the subject.
Let's say they are correct. What would the solution look like from there?
As an example, and this is only 1% of it, but I have had my utilities turned off several times for not paying bills, while having $400k in the bank.
It took the collapse of my marriage for me to finally do something about the rampant ADHD that has been a feature of my life for 40 years, and yes, part of that collapse was when someone from the gas company showed up to turn off the supply unless I paid the bill right now, which of course I could easily do.
It took me five years to actually get to a point of a) having a diagnosis and b) getting medication. Most of that was due to the perverse way this process works in the UK, where to get a diagnosis of executive dysfunction you have to do a ton of personal admin, after which you’ll be handed another todo list in order to be able to get drugs prescribed.
I’m now on a good dose of drugs and I honestly mourn for the decades of my life I could have been feeling how I do now had I known. They don’t make everything better, it’s still an effort to make myself focus on the things I should be focusing on, but once I am focusing on them I’m able to continue doing so, and I no longer find myself having done no work for the last week because I was putting off a ten minute task I didn’t want to do. Despite spending 12 hours a day with a steady stream of amphetamines being released into my blood stream my blood pressure has dropped significantly since starting the drugs because I’m no longer in a constant state of low grade panic at all the things I’m not doing.
Please, go get a diagnosis (or not, maybe they’re all wrong). Talk to whoever you’re referred to about options, decide whether drugs are something you want to try. Give yourself options at least because it is possible to stop playing life on hard mode.
Cognitive behavioral therapy and, if you want to, medication. Studies have confirmed great results when those two are done together.
If you get your utilities shut off due to ADHD, and that is only 1% of it as you claim, your instinctual coping mechanisms obviously aren't enough to prevent a pretty bad impact on your day-to-day life. As you would seek help for acute medical problems from professionals, you should seek help for chronic mental problems from professionals.
There’s both medication (which takes a while to get dosage right but can be extremely helpful for some) and also techniques you can use to help compensate.
Theres a pretty heavy "woo" presence on HN with lots of people who think you can just adopt a bunch of unproven metaphysical nonsense practices and magically delete your adhd (and anyone it doesnt work on just isnt trying hard enough). pay them no mind.
I'm a Tradesman Baker (4 year apprenticeship and a 12 month pre-apprenticeship), that about 2 years after being a fully qualified tradesman switched to IT and have been in the industry for about 28 years. I suspect it will be my last porfession
> albeit without the drug addiction or prison.
No disrespect, but this is not at all comparable to the situation described in the article. A few nights sleeping on the streets is much (!) easier when not addicted to substances.