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How London cracked mobile phone coverage on the Underground

159 points25 daysianvisits.co.uk
saulr20 days ago

Just to add a piece of data to support this:

> It turns out the phone signal inside the station can be better than the one above ground

I was surprised when I noticed I had 5G in the tunnel, ran a speed test and hit 641Mbps down!

https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/6831252952

dgxyz20 days ago

That always hurts. I live in a particularly nice bit of London and there is virtually no mobile phone service other than voice and can only get 80 meg ADSL. Yet the mole people get better service. Grr.

MagnumOpus20 days ago

One might even suspect that the particularly nice parts of London are full of NIMBYs who successfully petition against the eyesore of mobile masts being put up…

(Circumstantial evidence is that a particularly extra nice part of central London has no tube station, ostensibly to keep the riff-raff out, and is the only area with a proposed station on Crossrail 2 that voted against having a new station!)

ErroneousBosh20 days ago

> One might even suspect that the particularly nice parts of London are full of NIMBYs who successfully petition against the eyesore of mobile masts being put up…

I have a couple of the 4G-to-wifi bridges they used for the Free Wifi project during the Olympics kicking around somewhere, including the one they used for the promo photos. A friend of mine fitted them in the run-up to the Olympics, and the promo one had been sprayed in beautiful deep blue metallic paint with the logo stuck on.

He got given it to fit on a lamp post in a fairly posh London suburb, but the photographer couldn't come out so it was up there for about a week. When he came to remove it about half a dozen angry locals came up, complaining about the "microwave radiation was making them ill" and the "constant humming from it kept them awake at night", kind of thing, all the stuff they'd been ranting to the local fish-and-chips wrapper about.

"Oh, really? It's been affecting your health that badly?"

"Yes", they all replied, "we're getting a solicitor to take up our case, we're suing over it!"

"Oh," he said, opening the case he'd just taken down to reveal that it was completely empty. "Well, you're going to absolutely hate it when I put one up that's actually got the electronics inside then."

dgxyz20 days ago

There's plenty of riff raff here. Like me :)

+2
hotstickyballs20 days ago
ljm20 days ago

I have the opposite problem where I can only get HyperOptic. Not even OpenReach stuff. No problem with bandwidth but zero price competition, and 5G broadband isn’t viable either.

Going from £70/mo for gigabit to £65/mo for 500mb is insulting.

tialaramex20 days ago

Wait, why can't you get Openreach ? Even if it was a new build by idiots who forgot to push the "Free fibre, yes please" button when breaking ground you should have DSL at least.

+1
alexfoo20 days ago
+1
ljm20 days ago
marliechiller20 days ago

Reading this hurts. I'm on £26 a month for a gigabit connection in Z4.

speedbird20 days ago

Sigh. Urban expectations. Come live in the sticks where I do and pay £35/m for about 15Mb. Actually had to go Starlink to be able to work from home properly. Swish fibre came round a few years ago and dug up all our roads and put fibre to all the phone poles but then vanished and nothing has happened since.

dgxyz20 days ago

Urgh hyperoptic is dog shit as well. CGNAT or pay extra on top of already insulting prices.

traceroute6620 days ago

> Urgh hyperoptic is dog shit as well

Sounds like they haven't changed !

I recall helping out a friend to review a Hyperoptic proposal for their development.

Hyperoptic's idea of "optic" was fibre to a switch in the basement and then unshielded CAT5e to the users premises.

If that wasn't bad enough, even to the untrained eye, you did not need a measuring tape to see they would have exceeded the CAT length limit by quite some margin for many of the users.

And that's before their claims of owning the external fibre when in reality they were just contracting an ethernet service from BT.

So yeah, I would not touch Hyperoptic with a bargepole. I suspect the other altnets are no better .... "sell, build, disappear off to the sunset" was the impression I got.

Reading some of the reviews on the internet about post-sales support I'm not surprised in the slightest that users often struggle to get support once the salesdroid has long departed their doorstep.

+1
maleldil20 days ago
zipy12420 days ago

I almost moved into a nice warehouse space in farringdon once only to discover it only got 12 meg service somehow. I didn't even know you could get less than 80meg now.

qingcharles19 days ago

I moved into a commercial warehouse/workshop space in the center of Chicago in 2021 and was asked to install wired Internet for the building. The workshop that made up the other half of our building had Comcast. All the buildings across the street had Comcast.

Called Comcast. Sent a team out. Told me it would be $69,000 installation then minimum $800/month for gigabit. Complained up the chain. They sent another team out and apologized and told me the first team made a mistake on the price. The install would actually be $71,000.

AT&T was the only other wired option. Best they could offer was 1.5Mbps.

Ended up with a T-Mobile 5G router that gave us a solid 800Mbps down.

signal1120 days ago

Is it practical to pay BT or HyperOptic to run fibre to you? If enough households commit to a contract they’ll sometimes do it for free.

SecondHandTofu20 days ago

Like many of London's woes, that's because of planning, councils have to approve infrastructure and block it: https://www.londoncentric.media/p/why-exactly-is-londons-pho...

I'd say it's developing-world tier, but a lot of the developing world has really good 5G signal these days.

dgxyz20 days ago

There are also some absolute morons out there. Couple of local things around me...

First I went to one of the local town planning meetings in my area when they were rolling out FTTC. This one was due to a rather old person objecting to the placement of a streetside box which was not even outside her property and no one who it would have affected could see it or cared about it. I raised my objections about her being a NIMBY old fart and was asked to leave. She single-handedly blocked it for 5 years due to council connections. She dropped dead. Stuck on 20 meg ADSL until that happened.

Second, they built a 5g mast put didn't put any equipment in it and left it 3 months. Several local threads on Facebook from the tweakers about how it was causing all sorts of completely unrelated problems from tinnitus to covid to mind control. Then someone burned it. There is still no equipment in the cabinet or mast today, nearly 4 years on. No one got 5g.

userbinator20 days ago

Second, they built a 5g mast put didn't put any equipment in it and left it 3 months. Several local threads on Facebook from the tweakers about how it was causing all sorts of completely unrelated problems from tinnitus to covid to mind control. Then someone burned it. There is still no equipment in the cabinet or mast today, nearly 4 years on. No one got 5g.

Reminds me of this infamous decade-old story:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161010203002/http://mybroadban...

myself24820 days ago

This is standard advice among ham radio operators. If you're putting up a tower, put it up, mount the antennas, run the feedlines, but resist the temptation to operate for a while. Or use it for receive-only.

Log your activity, or lack thereof, meticulously. Perhaps a critical part was back-ordered, or more expensive than expected, and note in the log how it still hasn't arrived so you still aren't able to operate. If complaints come in, get them to be maximally public about it, ideally in a town meeting or something, then whip out your logbook and coup-fourré. Let the wackos show themselves to be wackos, then quietly start operating some time later.

exikyut20 days ago

I wonder what that group of people would have made of https://youtu.be/zy_ctHNLan8

(Chaotic lawfully :D)

HPsquared20 days ago

PvP systems are absolutely exhausting. What a waste of energy

phatfish20 days ago

This happens a million times all over the country by YouTube and social media addicted morons. Who go on to complain about how "nothing ever gets done in this country" and they want the "good old days" back.

Except in the good old days things just got done when there was demand for them and NIMBYs were told to fuck off.

userbinator20 days ago

I'd say it's developing-world tier, but a lot of the developing world has really good 5G signal these days.

They also have a much bigger population using exclusively mobiles rather than landlines, since their infrastructure developed when the former was already available, and it's cheaper to just put up a few towers than run one landline to each subscriber.

hdgvhicv20 days ago

During Covid people were attacking engineering laying fibre because it was “5g”, and facebook had told them 5g caused Covid.

mgaunard20 days ago

tl;dr people reject installing ugly masts in densely urbanised neighbourhoods, meaning there often isn't enough capacity for everyone to get fast 5G.

KellyCriterion20 days ago

Great - what does customers do with 640 Mbps downstream in the metro then? :-D :-D

alexfoo20 days ago

Take their laptops and do any big bulky downloads/uploads they have queued up.

hexbin01020 days ago

640 or more customers stream TikTok at the same time

KellyCriterion19 days ago

Interesting. I would have guessed, that TikTok does the replication on their servers? (like multicasting) Does the native client handles a lot of load?

dbish20 days ago

Pretty neat but as someone who commutes every day on the New York subway I hope it’s never “cracked” here. Phone usage without headphones is already annoying enough and I greatly appreciate the various people trying to take calls eventually lose service.

lostlogin20 days ago

It’s a tough choice, is it worse to hear their phone calls, or hear 2 seconds of every bit of TikTok/Instagram feed trash. Either way, no cellular access seems a plus.

throw567643u820 days ago

Honestly I'd prefer to listen to phone calls over brainless reels. Both are hell.

RicoElectrico20 days ago

Somehow even though there's great cell coverage in Warsaw metro people aren't being obnoxious with it.

pajamasam20 days ago

Same in Munich

wolvoleo20 days ago

Who still calls anyway? Literally all my friends exclusively message now (on WhatsApp).

It would be really annoying if I were out of touch for the whole duration of subway trips. But in my city it works great. Here the 3 main providers pooled together and shared the installation.

kergonath20 days ago

> Literally all my friends exclusively message now (on WhatsApp).

An annoyingly large number of them send audio messages. It’s worse for everyone involved.

throw567643u820 days ago

One or two people per carriage/bus.

cm218720 days ago

The worst is not calls, it is the thousands of zombies hooked up on tiktok 24/7, of course with headphones, so completely unaware and indifferent to their environment, who block tunnels, escalators, turnstiles, etc.

hdgvhicv20 days ago

In the 90s we read the paper and dumbed with our magnetic tickets. In the 00s we listened to MP3s while playing snake on an oyster. In the 10s we played Andy birds and listened to iTunes with a credit card at the turnstile. In the 20s we doom scroll and listen to Spotify while tapping out with our phone.

I don’t see the issue.

cm218720 days ago

All of that that they did while they sit. I don’t remember people reading the newspapers while slow walking in the middle of a corridor. And the problem with headphones is that they make people unaware of their surrounding, alone in the world, and therefore for instance unaware that there is someone on their left that they will cut the way to. Small incivilities, but repeat several times a day every day and it gets seriously annoying.

+2
hdgvhicv20 days ago
throw567643u820 days ago

This behaviour is so bad on London (above ground) trains, if they ever do 'crack it' and roll out mobile signal to the Underground, those tiny carriages will be unbearable.

p10jkle20 days ago

There already is signal on many underground lines, and it’s pretty rare that people are playing things out loud in my experience?

cm218720 days ago

London, increasingly common. I’d say a third of the time when I take the tube. Combine that with people making loud calls, 100% of the time. But I find people imposing their music or tiktok videos more obnoxious than a builder discussing his next job a bit loudly.

+1
KaiserPro20 days ago
+3
LightBug120 days ago
throw567643u820 days ago

My daily train to/from London Bridge to West Croydon is borderline unbearable.

hereonout220 days ago

It's because phones speakers aren't loud enough to be audible over the sound of the tube itself!

It is noticeable on buses and overground when people play things out load, but to be honest quite rare in the grand scheme of things.

LightBug120 days ago

That's true. I made several complaints about that to TFL before capitulating and just settling for noise-cancelling headphones.

Never been happier.

The clincher was noticing that the drivers themselves had access to ear defenders ... TFL said that that's because they're down there for extended periods of time. Sounds reasonable but I'm not buying that as a way out of not fixing the issue and exposing my ears to the worst bits of the tube.

Also has the ancillary benefits of blocking out those rare times (for me) when people do have their phone on speaker or are having a chat I'm uninterested in.

fennecbutt20 days ago

Welcome to the UK where citizens are so apathetic they don't care about aging infrastructure or government money being siphoned away.

Mindwipe20 days ago

There's literally already signal on half the Underground, has been for six months to a year, and as someone who gets the tube twice a day I've literally never seen someone do voice call. Literally ever.

kotaKat20 days ago
rhubarbtree20 days ago

What is the thing with people using phones without headphones? And making calls on public transport? When did that become a thing? It’s the most obnoxious selfish behaviour and it shocks me every time.

It’s not just Gen Z either, I’ve seen a few boomers do it and even a couple of millennials.

youngtaff20 days ago

Ten of so years ago I was on a train and the women opposite me gave all her credit card details to someone over the phone — anyone close by could have had fun with them

master-lincoln20 days ago

Is that still a thing in the USA that you can buy with just a credit card number, validity date, name and 3 digit code?

In the EU we have psd2 mandating a second factor. Usually an app where the transaction has to be confirmed.

gorfian_robot20 days ago

Yep. the US has always been behind on this bc both the card companies and the merchants are loath to spend an extra .01% to implement better security.

Apple Pay on mac is the best we got. Looking forward to getting a new mac this year in part just for that.

drnick120 days ago

The second factor is a true annoyance, especially because in Europe it tends to be an "app" that requires iOS or Google-certified phones.

youngtaff20 days ago

This was in the UK, before 2FA was more common for Cardholders not Present transactions

esperent20 days ago

Not to excuse other people's behavior but buying a decent pair of noise canceling headphones or earbuds will make putting up with it a whole lot easier. You don't even have to listen to anything, or you can put rain noises and thunderstorms. It's as much better soundscape than public transport.

hexbin01020 days ago

That also creates a problem that people then can not hear important announcements or be aware of dangers (such as knife wielding attackers, as happened on an LNER train just late last year)

795220 days ago

A deaf person wouldn't be able to either. We need better non audible ways of signalling.

wolvoleo20 days ago

You can still hear those things, just not obnoxiously loudly. NC works best against static sounds. Speech still makes it through. Just not as loud.

If you're in a busy car enough people will hear it to be aware, and if you're on your own you will hear the announcement clearly.

Besides it's really a one in 10 million chance you'll get stabbed on the metro, not worth worrying about. The chance of getting hit by a car in traffic is much higher. That feeling of always being in some kind of danger seems to be very American, I never really see that in people here in Europe. I think it's the sensationalism in the press there, every little incident is blown up to massive "BREAKING NEWS!" proportions.

hexbin01020 days ago

Don't lecture me in a condescending manner. I'm British, I've taken the train all my life, and for years have worn NC headphones to counter the incessant announcements and anti social behaviour. I also have to my play my own music to drown it out

Also: generalising about Europeans is quite ignorant. As is ignoring recent data and recent risks and just citing long term data to insinuate people are being hysterical

buckle801720 days ago

Noise cancelling headphones on NYC public transit is insanity.

lxgr19 days ago

No, riding the Subway without noise canceling headphones is. The track screeching is something else.

TheFuzzball20 days ago

Why?

dbish20 days ago

You want to be aware of your surroundings.

edent20 days ago

Why is your need for silence more important than other people's need to communicate?

Retric20 days ago

Neither of those things are needs, it’s just wants and preferring your own wants over others is completely normal.

Imagine trying to live your life where other people’s desires by default overrode you own.

nanna20 days ago

Because silence is a common good, like clean air. It's everyone's. When people fill it with their noise they effectively privatize it for the duration. When they shout on speakerphone or play their music or blare sound from their apps it's especially selfish.

userbinator20 days ago

Imagine trying to live your life where other people’s desires by default overrode you own.

Unfortunately that happens a lot; it's called the government.

+1
trueismywork20 days ago
hexbin01020 days ago

It's actually against byelaws to play music or other loud sounds on transport in London and they can prosecute you if they so wished...

It's about acknowledging it's a shared resource and respecting the space. No loud noises, no littering, no being drunk etc

These days people act like they're the only ones travelling

nanna20 days ago

Looks like TFL issued a whopping three fines in total last year...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx4lje9jpjo

hexbin01020 days ago

I know, it's pathetic. It's partly because they don't want to pay for the staff to do the enforcement and partly probably some other reasons.

In classic British style they just try to influence and nudge people with campaigns and posters. That way the organisation doesn't have to deal with awkward accusations of racism etc

throw567643u820 days ago

Etiquette. Some are raised with it.

dbish20 days ago

Simply being polite. Understanding there are other people in the world you inhabit. Things like that.

CalRobert20 days ago

They can use headphones. The problem is listening to someone scroll through tiktok with volume on max.

jorvi20 days ago

Their silence disrupts no one, but one call or loud song disrupts 20-40 people their peace.

Don't be a douche.

youngtaff20 days ago

You’re be a bit contrarian there and I’m quite sure you actually believe it’s far more nuanced than that

catoc20 days ago

You do understand that one of those “needs”affects others around you, and one of them leaves them in peace, right? Also I’m sure parent wasn’t referring to emergency calls

dfajgljsldkjag20 days ago

I had assumed the delay was technical but it turns out it was mostly about finding a business model that worked for everyone. It is good they finally settled on a shared infrastructure approach so they do not have to crowd the tunnels with extra equipment.

DrBazza20 days ago

I'm old enough to remember the first attempt at 'mobile underground'. Maybe I've forgotten the name but it was something like BT Phone Zone, though google returns zero relevant results, so perhaps it was called something else. In lieu of public call boxes, BT trialled a base station that was installed in some tube stations (almost certainly Oxford St and Tottenham Court Rd), and with the correct 'wireless handset' as long as you were within 10 feet of it, or thereabouts, you could make a call. I'm sure I remember a semi-circle painted on the ground that if you stood in, you were in range.

timthorn20 days ago
DrBazza20 days ago

Yeah, I think that's it. Thanks.

mark_undoio20 days ago

Whilst I have seen the Rabbit fittings others have mentioned I do remember mention of a "zone phone" and suspect we're recalling the same thing...

mark_undoio20 days ago
kotaKat20 days ago
DrBazza20 days ago

Yes, looks like it. I see it was licensed to a few other companies.

cagz20 days ago

I use the underground frequently. It doesn't really feel like half of it is covered. Where it is available, it works amazingly. I might have been using the other half by sheer luck.

chatmasta20 days ago

I find it works pretty well, at least that I’m consistently surprised I have any signal at all. Sometimes I need to disable private relay to get it to work with all the switchovers. There’s also frequent swapping between the 5G signal and the Wi-Fi that comes auto-enabled on my phone by my carrier who provides a client certificate entitling me to it.

I’m not sure about the privacy implications of this whole setup. It’s basically turned the underground into a surveillance dragnet that can hoover up all sorts of interesting metadata… hostnames, hardware identifiers, traveling patterns, DNS queries, SNI requests… and an untold amount of unencrypted communications across weird protocols and devices..

userbinator20 days ago

I wonder if they considered using the existing metal tracks as antennae, or even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication to feed base stations in the trains themselves.

So the ESN in the tunnels runs at 400 MHz, far lower than the 700 to 3,600 MHz range usually used by smartphones.

It's worth noting that 450MHz was listed as one of the GSM bands, but apparently was never used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_frequency_bands#GSM-450

fundatus20 days ago

> It's worth noting that 450MHz was listed as one of the GSM bands, but apparently was never used

It's specified for 4G/LTE (Band 31, 72 & 73) and 5G (Band n31 & n72) as well! The bandwidth is pretty low though at just 5 MHz, but it's used for special purpose stuff like electricity meters. I'm not aware of any consumer devices that use this frequency.

wolvoleo20 days ago

Weird because very few phones have that band. Requires much larger antennas. Twice as long as for 800Mhz.

Edit: ah I see why, this is exclusively about the Emergency Services network, not for regular phones.

In that sense it seems a bit similar to GSM-R used by the railways here.

celsoazevedo20 days ago

I think that part of the article is wrong. The old radio system apparently uses ~400 MHz, but ESN seems to use the same/similar bands as mobile services (700 MHz and above).

Animats20 days ago

This is the new system for emergency communications? TfL just finished up an upgrade on that in 2021. That upgrade was built by Thales.[1] That system is purely for operational use, and is not cell phone compatible. It's compatible with the gear cops and fire brigades use. Is it being replaced?

As late as 2018, the classic century-old system, with two bare wires on insulators on the tunnel walls, was still maintained.[2] Clipping a telephone handset to the two wires would connect to a dispatcher, and the wires were placed so that reaching out of the driver's cab to do this was possible. In addition, squeezing the wires together by hand would trip a relay and cut traction power. Is that still operational? The 2011 replacement was ISDN.

[1] https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/news-centre/press-releases/th...

[2] https://www.railengineer.co.uk/communications-on-the-central...

795220 days ago

The classic system does sound pretty elegant really.

xvilka20 days ago

It always better to have a backup.

cedws20 days ago

Definitely not. Try it in Tokyo, every single line, every single station has high speed coverage. I can’t recall signal ever dropping out for me.

Havoc20 days ago

London’s first line predates tokyos by like 60 years and was literally the test ground for how to make underground’s

The challenge isn’t the technology but rather the environment you’re trying to retrofit

drnick120 days ago

The real issue is lack of investment. The old lines with tiny trains not tall enough to stand in other than in the middle should have be rebuilt (much) larger long ago with enough space for AC and modern amenities, but the British never bothered because "it's fine, London is not that hot anyway."

mft_20 days ago

So if I follow, you’re saying that because London’s underground is older than Tokyo’s, it somehow changes the physical environment of the tunnels or their surroundings such that installing the required technology is more difficult?

Please expand…

redleader5520 days ago

The way this is usually done is through a radiating wire that goes on the wall from station to station. This solution requires a lot of power. The stations in London are very small, leaving very little space for a transformer that can provide said power.

Because of that they rely on directional antennas that cover sections of the tunnel - but those need to be straight, otherwise another antenna is required to cover that corner. There is also very little head-room in the tube tunnels in London. You can see how things get more and more complicated as you dig deeper into the problem.

Havoc20 days ago

You’ve not been in London’s deep underground lines I take it? Some of the tunnels are so ancient and cramped that tall people can’t stand straight in most of the carriages. As the article says there just isn’t space to add equipment. Same reason they’re struggling to add air conditioning to older lines - no clearance

The recently built lines had 5G etc from the start. It’s not difficult when the environment isn’t constraining you. Even malls add indoor 5g these days

TheOtherHobbes20 days ago

There is very limited clearance inside the tunnels, and a lot of electrical noise from existing systems.

Symbiote20 days ago

The tunnels are particularly narrow and lived with iron rings. There's less space for adding equipment.

cedws20 days ago

That's the standard excuse but it's the same on the Elizabeth line which was commissioned only a few years ago.

knorker20 days ago

It makes me sick to see London bragging about this. This is last century technology, and other cities managed to retrofit this just fine, including of course using leaky cable in the tunnels.

That it took 20-30 years longer than everyone else is through absolute incompetence and mismanagement. It would have been in place at least 10 years ago if they hadn't screwed up the RFP that Huawei won.

And it's not even shared infra! Vodafone is WAY behind the other networks.

I have worked with these things. There's no valid excuse for being 20-30 years behind on this.

And it's still not landed! By the time it finally gets to all stations I wouldn't be surprised if it's 40-50 years behind everyone else.

everfrustrated20 days ago

The actual reason it took so long was TFL wanted to rent this to a mobile network to create revenue for themselves.

It wasn't enough to be cost-neutral it had to make them money.

knorker19 days ago

Well the Huawei winning scandal appeared to be real. But also, I wouldn't be surprised.

In any case, as I said I have actual expertise in this area, and exactly none of being 20-50 years late has any technical reasons. I'm not surprised if there the layers of incompetence go deeper and include what you said.

matham20 days ago

I'm having a really hard reading this. Not only are the paragraphs are so short, they each feel like part of a uncompleted thought.

The content doesn't feel AI generated, but maybe it is? I read somewhere that short paragraphs is an AI signature!?

dotBen20 days ago

One of the frustrating things about international roaming in the UK is typically your plan does not include coverage on this neutral network on the underground

kalleboo20 days ago

I was thinking it could be a radio band issue?

I had a fun situation when I had friends visiting me in Japan for a road trip. One friend's US-model Android phone didn't support the specific low bands used for sparse coverage in rural Japan, but the repeaters inside of the tunnels were all on standard 2100 MHz, so whenever we drove through a tunnel he rushed to his phone to get some messages through. Kind of the opposite to what you usually experience with loss of signal in tunnels :)

inlustra20 days ago

Source? As someone that comes back to London every month, I’ve been able to roam the same as anywhere else in the UK. I’d be shocked if this were true.

Brajeshwar20 days ago

Did the UK stop people from just picking up a cheap SIM at the Airport? I always like a local number when traveling. Anyway, Indian Roaming plans are so cheap these days that it's much easier and cheaper to just subscribe to them as part of the plan. These days, I don’t even need to add/activate it or anything, the providers turn it ON when I start my phone outside India and turn it off when I re-activate back in India.

Symbiote20 days ago

I think I saw vending machines with SIM cards recently in Heathrow airport.

mgaunard20 days ago

The main problem if you're roaming is that you're considered a lower-priority customer, and since the network is often saturated already, you don't get any bandwidth.

mikelward20 days ago

I don't think that's correct.

With the old WiFi networks (Virgin, Vodafone WiFi, etc.), yes.

With the new 4G+5G coverage, you can access that the same as you access above ground coverage.

testdelacc120 days ago

As a resident with a phone problem I miss the underground not having any signal. Other people using TikTok doesn’t bother me so much because it’s relatively rare. My own tendencies with screen time bother me more. No internet actually forced me to read books more and I miss that.

But this is a lot better for tourists who need the internet to navigate underground. So I’m pleased for them.

zith20 days ago

Interesting! I know Sweden was not first, but Stockholm has had 3g coverage in the subway since 2005 and 4g since 2016.

justincormack20 days ago

Lots of countries do where the underground is near the surface, but London it is very deep.

zulln20 days ago

Quick googling gave that Stockholm is deeper on average, although the deepest point of London metro is currently deeper than Stockholm. No drastical differences that should affect this question I think.

(This will change when they are done with Sofia station, a new station in Stockholm that they are building 100 m below the surface.)

ChrisMarshallNY20 days ago

In Japan, mobile works everywhere.

Not exactly sure how they do it, but you could use phones on trains, last century.

teleforce20 days ago

> In Japan, mobile works everywhere

Yes Japan has the best mobile wireless coverage bar none, but not everywhere.

Based on my experiences there's significant blind spot of mobile wireless coverage along the way from Fukuoka station to Iizuka.

Thanks to the OP excellent article.

Tsiklon20 days ago

From looking at the WiFi ssid’s broadcast at the New York subway stations, I believe Boldyn also does the phone coverage here too

corimaith20 days ago

They didn't. In the Bakerloo line there is no coverage save for wifi on stations, not on tracks.

iLoveOncall20 days ago

Anyone who lives in London knows that phone coverage on the Tube is anything but "cracked".

inshard20 days ago

The Paris metro figured this out perfectly way back in 2021 - full bars, 5G.

edent20 days ago

The Paris metro is mostly cut-and-cover. It isn't very deep. The deepest tube lines are around 60m underground.

redleader5520 days ago

Are you suggesting the mobile signal comes from above the ground in Paris?

edent20 days ago

No. I'm suggesting it is easier and cheaper to retrofit equipment. Not to mention dealing with the extra heat.

ViewTrick100220 days ago

Pulling the cables down the service shafts from the surface is not the hard part either way.

Stockholm has had 3g in the entire subway system since 2005. Which has then been continuously upgraded. With some very deep lines.

timthorn20 days ago

Are the dual redundant leaky feeders configured to act as a MIMO array?

hexbin01020 days ago

How London enabled TikTok addicts to annoy other passengers

FridayoLeary20 days ago

>There’s another distance limit at work here, and that is the speed of light. It takes milliseconds for the signal in your phone to reach the hotel above ground and be handed over to the mobile network. But if it takes too long to get from phone to hotel, then your phone call s..a.rt..s..t o. br..e..ak up. As it happens, that distance is about 12km, so Boldyn needs nine hotels around London to cover the whole of the Underground

I find that interesting. Another fascinating rabbit hole the article has sent me down is that there is an unused station called north end. I've been down that stretch before and i had no idea. Does anyone know if passengers can see it?

TheOtherHobbes20 days ago

There's a small surface building that doesn't look like a station, platforms are visible if you're paying attention, and it can be used for emergency evacuations.

FridayoLeary20 days ago

what's the address of the building?

alexfoo20 days ago

https://maps.app.goo.gl/YpywKrJC4at2RwHy7

I found the coordinates on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_End_tube_station (the link is up in the top right above the photo).

Doesn't appear on this list though (unless it had another name): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_and_unopened_Lo...

joelkoen20 days ago

> What happens if a train has to stop in the middle of the tunnel, and you phone for help? [...] the system has been deliberately configured to transmit the location of the nearest tube station, where access can be arranged. That’s why sometimes you might check your smartphone map, and it will display the “wrong” location, because that’s the best one for a 999 call to use.

This doesn't seem correct - cell towers don't just transmit a location that phones then pickup and use? Unless this is some emergency specific feature I'm not aware of?

bobmcnamara20 days ago

> This doesn't seem correct - cell towers don't just transmit a location that phones then pickup and use?

I think it works like this: Towers transmit location. If the phone has no other source of location data, it'll fall back to "probably within radio range of this only tower I can hear"

bede20 days ago

> There’s another distance limit at work here, and that is the speed of light. It takes milliseconds for the signal in your phone to reach the hotel above ground and be handed over to the mobile network.

It takes roughly 100us for light to travel 30km – Can you explain how the speed of light is relevant here?

mianos20 days ago

.. and in 1mS it travels 300km. Maybe they just want to sound technical, somewhat to match the rest of the article. They certainly didn't use chat gpt, so maybe that's a good thing.

egao198020 days ago

[dead]

bildabearg20 days ago

[flagged]