OT but as an European who wanted to come visit the US again (been an exchange student in Ohio State in 2010 and been in US two times aside of that) I keep finding more reasons not to than to do so.
The two biggest off putting things are immigration (had few friends blocked half a day required to give access to all their devices just recently, treated very brutally out of nothing) and the insane inflation that happened in the last years.
Traveling to the US used to be cheap for Europeans, but the prices are nowadays insane for anything. Used to have a hard time spending 150$ per day in Manhattan, it's twice the amount just for a budget hotel. Went to see the Knicks vs Bucks for 40$, it's like 10 times the amount for the same seat.
Attractions like Disneyworld and such as well have skyrocketed to the point it's really off putting.
If at least immigration wasn't so obnoxious and I didn't hear horror stories from IRL friends I could swallow the pricing pillow, but not both.
Apparently visa overstays are the primary route for illegal immigration, much more common than illegal border crossing: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecu...
Which is odd since visa overstays should be more "legible" to the government in terms of at least knowing their name and when they entered, which should make them easier and more efficient to deport. Unlike illegals who hop the border where you don't even know how many or who they are at all.
well, both are "illegals", one's just more likely to be white i suppose
Yup. My immigration attorney said that (when I was dealing with a brief lapse in status, due to a divorce and moving and due dates) "as a white person, and a man working in a high paying job", I was "pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole for USCIS enforcement efforts" while we resolved my case.
And sorry, given ICE's mandates, ruled temporarily okay by SCOTUS, that color of skin, accent, name are effectively "probable cause" for detention, I'd say her perspective is absolutely aligned with current enforcement priorities.
By Europe you are excluding Russia right? Mexican/Latin American wealth is correlated to skin color like it is in the USA, so most of the illegal border crossings are from those with darker skin, not just the “average Mexican.”
It seems odd that the US government doesn't have enough resources to just go after everyone whose in the country illegal, and instead has to prioritize and triage based on e.g. money or melanin. I think people would find it more fair if they just went after everyone whose illegal.
Dems have been pointing this out for years, yes.
You didn't want to listen, though. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32051452
You should quote what I said:
> Visa overstays are a “bigger problem” according to whom? Could someone reasonably consider illegal border crossings a bigger problem because they involve completely unvetted people, as opposed to visa overstays which involve people who were at least minimally vetted in getting a visa?
All I said was that you could reasonably consider illegal border crossings to be a “bigger problem,” even accepting that visa overstays account for a larger volume. You’re tacitly assuming that “bigger problem” and “bigger volume” are the same, but my point there was that those aren’t the same.
And four years later, of course, we’re in a different factual scenario. The level of border crossings is down to almost zero now.
> And four years later, of course, we’re in a different factual scenario.
The article you linked is from 2019 and says "for the seventh consecutive year". This is not new info.
Quote my whole point!
> And four years later, of course, we’re in a different factual scenario. The level of border crossings is down to almost zero now.
Border crossings can be a higher priority even if visa overstays account for more volume, because of the different level of vetting for those two routes. But now that border crossings are down, it makes sense to focus on visa overstays. How is any of that inconsistent?
It's ok to change your mind. Kind of a lame move to go digging through someone's history to try to prove them wrong like that.
> It's ok to change your mind.
I don't disagree. Some users on here, though, are a little notorious, and my spidey sense went off given past interactions. One search on https://hn.algolia.com/ and here we are.
Yeah, rayiner is quite famous for his.. umm.. views.
Persistence of memory—limited deletion of old comments, easy searching through archives—is a key feature of HN that distinguishes it from other forums.
I think it’s worth noting that he doesn’t believe that his mind has changed.
It's strange to simply make it cost more to do so.
Eh, I can at least sorta see the logic of that; it presumably costs money to find, process, and fly you out. Making you front those costs avoids having to chase you post-deportation (with very little chance of collecting).
Nah, this is a filtering criteria. This is pay-to-illegally-immigrate. Republicans are fine with over staying visas or that kind of illegal immigration, half their spouses do it. Iirc milania did it.
They only want rich criminals. Not poor ones.
This isn't true. Republicans love illegal immigration because you can underpay people and avoid a lot of regulation.
It is trivial to implement e-verify for employment for everyone. It would nearly eliminate illegal workers. If Republicans (or anyone) cared about stopping the hiring of illegal workers, it is a trivial process to implement. No one wants to do it because then Americans would unionize.
Yes, this has always been true. I'm astonished to hear you realise it though.
This is you being "left -wing" as you acknowledge something you actually know about is true.
The last budget included another $4.5 Billion for the wall. That ought to put a stop to it!
Man, US immigration has been dysfunctional my entire life and it's only gotten worse during the last 10 years. I can't imagine being trusting enough to fork over a $15k bond to the US government. What are you going to do when you're safely back home in the EU and they refuse your refund? What authority would stand any chance of recovering your money?
This is very much by design. Republicans, back in the 50s and 60s, basically destroyed US immigration because of mexican farm labor. Lookup the Braseros Program and the series of mass human migrations that used to happen. This goes back to before WW1. The history is pretty fascinating.
They knew that they could make this a campaign issue so they did it. Then democrats realized they could also campaign on this issue without actually doing anything.
Then once a decade or so someone makes a few changes and the system gets fucked up again.
I'm in my late 30s and immigration has always been broken. People have always admitted it's broken. Then nobody does anything to fix it besides posturing/grandstanding for an election cycle.
Bounty hunting is legal in US, so I'm more than confident that there will be companies that offer this as a service for 10% and require phone/ankle monitoring.
> US immigration has been dysfunctional my entire life and it's only gotten worse during the last 10 years.
This policy was instituted in August. Pretending that this is just an evolving norm in a pocket along the line of a routine policy spectrum makes you part of the problem, not the solution.
Reminds me of that moving quote on the Statue of Liberty:
"Give us your rested, your rich, your single individuals earning high incomes with special skills, yearning to stay for one year only, the people who don't need asylum from their high-GDP developed democratic nation and own property overseas."
solid joke, kudos. lol
Brit here. Went to the USA for a three week holiday this Summer. Had zero issues with immigration, or anything at all in the USA.
Had the best time.
Even the fiance visa program (K-1), which I went through 19 years ago. is affected by similar requirements.
It's set up with a number of safeguards:
The USC has to apply for it on behalf of the immigrant, while the USC is physically in the country, and the immigrant must not be (to prevent coercion).
But the visa is set up to expect the USC to be the primary breadwinner. I get that part of this is to dissuade "buying a visa" (but these days, hah).
But my USC fiance was a student while I was an Australian IT professional. The government wanted us to demonstrate that we could support ourselves for months while I found a job, but literally didn't care what finances I contributed to that.
Ended up that her mother had to sponsor my visa using her house as surety. For which I am entirely grateful, but bleh.
They didn't expect her to pay for our lives, but meant that if I used any government resource such as Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security in my first ten years as a resident, that the IRS (I think) could be asked to effectively bill her for reimbursement of every dollar.
I've been telling anyone I know who's planning on visiting or coming to the US not to do so for their own safety. It's no longer worth risking the potential abuse and invasion of privacy.
Hmm, South Africa is not exempt, because they are not part of the Visa Waver program. (No country in Africa is part of that program, according to [1].)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#:~:text=As...
SA had a stint of issues with illegitimate but real passport being issued via fraud so think it'll take a while till they make any 1st world waiver lists again
Depends on skin color.
https://za.usembassy.gov/refugee-admissions-program-for-sout...
> Consistent with President Trump’s Executive Order on Addressing Egregious Actions of the Republic of South Africa, the Department of State is coordinating with the Department of Homeland Security to consider eligibility for U.S. refugee resettlement for people who are of Afrikaner ethnicity or a member of a racial minority in South Africa who are victims of government-sponsored race-based discrimination.
(That's a lot of words to say "white".)
A lot of the folks in trump's cabinet are pro-apartheid white supremacists. they think white people in SA are the victims. Stephen Miller is a great example.
I'm not disagreeing with ya, just adding more context.
>Depends on skin color.
Well that is happening too but is separate to what I was alluding to - mistrust of SA issued passports.
e.g. Ireland scrapped visa free access & appears to have been for this reason
But Israel, which routinely denies entry (at the border, after flying halfway around the world!) to American citizens of Arab or Palestinian heritage in contravention of the rules and stipulations of the Visa Waiver Program, is (after Biden pushed to get them into the program).
There's a lot of tourism dollars/euros/yuan/rupees sloshing around looking for a place to go. Looks like Asia will ultimately be the winner, and I mean from east to west - Abu Dhabi is building a Disneyland and Bangkok is the #1 visited city in the world. India's tourism industry (think outside the big cities) seems to be improving very rapidly - every post I see from postcard hotels on instagram gives me wanderlust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_Abu_Dhabi https://www.travelandleisure.com/most-visited-city-in-the-wo... https://www.instagram.com/thepostcardhotel/
It is almost impossible to get international people to come to the US anymore, the few people who are willing to visit can't get visa appointments at the consulate.
Wouldn't be surprised if the World Cup sees half empty stadiums this year and tourism related places like Vegas continue to draw down.
Being a European and former US admirer, I thought about it almost a year and decided it doesn't worth to visit any more. The couple of times I had in the past I observed the US life is exactly like depicted in US movies (barring the violent scenes). So instead of paying a visit, pay attention to some movie (pun intended).
Gift link: https://wapo.st/49t7AMd
why would someone want that?
archive.is breaks plenty of sites or makes viewing them less pleasant.
was trying to plan a casual trip with friends and learned about this because the wife of one of our friends is Algerian, now he has to pocket 15k just so they can join us for a music festival.
Don't worry, some 'insurance' company totally not in cahoots with the authorities will pop up that will post bond for you in exchange for a non-refundable fee of their own. You might have to put up your car or something as collateral though.
Yeah I think Trump/MAGA doesn't want Algerians in the US so that's a feature not a bug to them.
Interesting, I don't get an article but just one sentence.
W/JavaScript off, yes, same for me.
Had to toggle JavaScript on for the site to get the full article.
I don't find this that weird, maybe 15k$ is a lot, but being from south america some european countries require you to prove that you have money before traveling if I remember correctly, I think maybe 5k euros?
I don't think they hold that money as a bond.
proof of financial stability and means of supporting oneself is entirely different than withholding that value as a bond
It makes sense to require you to have a certain amount of money if you're going to stay a certain amount of time on a tourist visa.
Having dealt with the US Federal government, good luck trying to get your 15K back if there's an administrative issue.
Why Bhutan of all places?
Seems it's because out of the low hundreds people total who visited in a year and were expected to leave the US, some large percent didn't leave, joining the double-digit overstayers club. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2025-09/25_0912_cbp_...
Thanks for the link, to save anyone else the trouble, it seems that the rate for Bhutan is 89 out of 423 (21%) in country overstays. Average overstay rate for non visa waiver countries is 2.2%.
Bhutan doesn’t have formal diplomatic relations with US. They’re the one of the two countries in Asia that doesn’t have a US embassy, the other being North Korea. (Not suggesting that they’re NK) It’s probably because they just don’t have relationship with the US.
bhutan has the lowest number of international relations
it appears that they intentionally avoid relationships with countries that could try to unduly influence them.
State Department was commanded to make a list of countries by visa overstay rate and all decisions made based on that sheet regardless of merit.
Just like tariffs were decided, and a bunch of microscopic pacific islands are being judged by trade deficits.
Visa overstay rate does at least relate to the issue at hand, because visa overstays are what they're trying to prevent. But trade deficits were never a good proxy.
It's just weird they were even on the radar. I guess I could see a blanket 'any country with over 10% overstaying, bond required'.
Otherwise can't think of any identity/tribal reason... maybe tobacco lobbyists requested since they tried to ban smoking?
I'm not American or live in the US, and haven't visited since before covid, but those who are or have been, can you give someone looking in some insight? Does it all just feel so much more explicitly like a state sponsored grift daily or is that just the vibes giving off by my selective media consumption?
I live here and, if I ignore the news/media, it's fine.
(Not discounting the possibility that perhaps at some point it won't be though. And I am a white male if that makes a difference.)
Reminder that border patrol and ice have shot 3 people in the last 48 hours, one of them resulting in a death while they refused to allow medical treatment. Then multiple government agencies lied about the evidence, got caught, and lied again. We're not talking disputing facts, the FBI and ICE and the president blatantly lied while there is video evidence showing what happened.
Furthermore, a lot of politicians not only agree with this extrajudicial justice, they applauded the lies and the shootings.
Even US citizens are being detained. I think most tourists and immigrants should be very, very apprehensive about coming to this country.
I live in Oregon where this stuff is happening on the daily. Citizens are being plucked out of high school parking lots with no verification.
I think saying "it's fine" is pretty out of touch with reality. If you are non-white I would absolutely not travel to the United States right now. I say this as a white guy on the west coast of the US. Basically all my non-white foreign friends, mostly in academia, refuse to travel to the US right now and have no plans of doing so while Trump is in office. Their organizations and universities also aren't recommending US travel at this time.
A social media post from a decade ago could land you in custody. Think about that before traveling to the US. Is it likely? No, but it's very possible with Trump's proud boys doing immigration enforcement. Remember, they(federal agents) have absolute immunity.
You're right. But I say "it's fine" when I take into account the odds of this happening to anyone at random.
I mean even before this administration, there were serial killers (well, probably still are) but I wouldn't tell someone to stay away from the US because there are serial killers. That was my point.
The country is indeed very fucked up though in general. But if you want to see the National Parks or museums, please enjoy (especially because it might get worse here down the road).
> Reminder that border patrol and ice have shot 3 people in the last 48 hours, one of them resulting in a death while they refused to allow medical treatment.
Not trying to downplay that, but I think that's also on people's minds because of the new cycle. There are regularly "questionable" police shootings, causing deaths and have been going back as far as... well, ever. So in an unfortunately way, this isn't really "new".
Still about the same price as being smuggled in by a coyote. Maybe a slight premium. Only slight effect on illegal immigration. I see this as USA basically trying to get the same 'cut' the coyote does.
Because all immigration is illegal now?
You get the money, at least allegedly, returned if it's legal.
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Yes I agree. I only noted what I felt about its effects on illegal immigration.
As for legal immigrants, note my other comment, I think an in-cahoots bond agency that will pop up, collect an annoying but much smaller fee, then let you put up your car or something as collateral.
The bulk of these people are going to not illegally immigrate. They don't need to be smuggled in but they are going to have to pony up a significant amount of money (more than most of them have). All this will do is put a serious dent into the legal immigration, the illegal ones will come anyway because they have a different risk/reward calculation.
And borrowing Donald Trump some money for a few weeks and expecting it back is something that I would not do.
Effectively what this will do is to stop people from those countries from traveling to the US entirely. Which is probably the real goal.
As to your edit:
People flying in from abroad won't have cars available as collateral, and most likely won't be allowed to fly before they put up the bond.
Sure, regardless of availability it is still going to be a massive increase in expenses effectively amounting to collective punishment. If 10% of your countrymen don't return after visiting the USA then the bonds providers are going to charge you at least 10% and probably substantially more.
Oh no worries. Just speaking for myself that isn't going to happen. Things were bad enough between 2000 and 2007 when I was living on the US border, since then they've gotten so much worse that I wasn't planning on it, even if I'm not required to put up a five figure bond.
Maybe one day the USA will rejoin civilization but there are enough countries to choose from as it is. For me the main yardstick by which I measure how civilized a country is is by observing how the authorities treat people who have little or no power within the system.
The NYC hotel situation isn't the normal inflation, but the hotel lobby bribing the government for reduced hotel permits and banning airbnb. The amount of regulatory bullshit in NYC to run a hotel is insane, including special permit carveouts for small independent hotels (i.e. the shitholes next to the Queensbridge Houses)
The other thing is due to the K-shaped economic recovery, where companies realized the bottom 90% have no money and don't bother to try for their business at all. Concert tickets have similarly increased in price and decreased in supply.
> The other thing is due to the K-shaped economic recovery, where companies realized the bottom 90% have no money and don't bother to try for their business at all. Concert tickets have similarly increased in price and decreased in supply.
You see this all over the economy. Since 1980, income of the top 10%, subtracting the top 1%, has increased much more than the income of the middle 20%. That’s why every brand is trying move upmarket. Disney World ticket prices have increased vastly more than inflation, because the company is willing to ditch middle class customers to chase a more affluent customer base: https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/disney-world-prices-up-3871-in...
This is also why “middle class luxury” chains like Sizzler have gotten squeezed out.
America is an important part of western culture due to its media exposure, from the news to streaming to music, etc. It's a strong hook willing to see it with your own eyes and not a screen.
Also, I have some friends and I always had a good time in US so I wanted to share the american experience with my SO.
But if for the same money I can take 2/3 normal vacations or stay a month in Capri..I'm not rushing.
Anecdotally I can say that I was just in Boston for the holidays and the immigration officer was the most chill out of the 3 times I visited.
But yeah the prices are crazy.
Has it happened this year?
Because now you're required to list all of your handles on any social media you had in the last 5 years and any email you used in the last 10.
This applies even for visa waiver countries as of 2026.
This makes me nervous because I have been critical of the US on some topics regarding the news or geopolitics (e.g. the recent events in Venezuela).
But even admitting the us is a sane country protecting the right to speech, there are 0 chances I remember all my emails (I don't even remember all the clients I worked with but gave me an email) or reddit/forum accounts.
I went there about 3 weeks ago. It was asked of me but only optionally, and I didn't do it.
The Canadian border guards are still significantly more aggressive than the US ones
The Canadian ones have to deal with Americans that don't realize the second amendment doesn't excuse forgetting there are firearms in your vehicle
That's why the American side presumably has "Don't forget about your guns" signs, while I can vouch for the Canadian side having "Don't forget pot isn't legal down there" signs.
The former is much more dangerous to officers than the latter, and justifies a more aggressive response IMO
> Used to have a hard time spending 150$ per day in Manhattan, it's twice the amount just for a budget hotel. Went to see the Knicks vs Bucks for 40$, it's like 10 times the amount for the same seat. Attractions like Disneyworld and such as well have skyrocketed to the point it's really off putting.
There's actually quite a bit of the US outside of NYC and Orlando, and a lot of it is cheaper.
Why not just go to Canada? Montreal is cool.
I mean, that's fine, though it's kind of feeding into the whole "Canada and America are so ridiculously similar" thing that people who want Canada to be the 51st state keep bringing up.
Montreal and Quebec City are probably the two most unAmerican large cities in Canada. They have culture and history that is unique.
Our food is also bland horrible.
Theirs no reason to take a vacation here. Everyone is subject to arbitrary detention without reason or cause.
Asia is still cheap, has better food and generally has significantly lower crime.
Our fruit sucks and we basically have no street food culture worth discussing.
But we have the best pizza in the world. Detroit, Chicago and a decent NY are just better.
The northern part of the east coast easily has the greatest concentration of amazing sandwiches in the world. It was shocking to me just how bad a sub sandwich can be even if you are in a different location in the US, I never found one I would recommend in Chicago.
Most places I've traveled have a single style of sandwich maybe worth eating. Although sandwiches like the Banh Mi deserve to be discussed. But you can get those wherever there is any kind of Vietnamese population in the US and I haven't noticed much difference regionally personally.
Brisket BBQ was also invented here and most countries do not even a bad option for it.
> But we have the best pizza in the world
There's italians all around the world. You can have a great pizza virtually everywhere.
I had a great one, and I mean among the best I had in my life (mind you I've been to the highest rated pizzas in Italy) even in Sangenjaya, Tokyo, Pizzeria Da Peppe - NAPOLI STA CA.
The one I went was pure Neapolitan thanks God.
> but I still prefer a Detroit style over them
We all have our Stockholm syndrome :)
I really didn’t enjoy Chicago pizza when I visited, as with many things in the US it’s quantity over quantity and the cheese is not as good as you find in Europe
Someone really needs to do a numerical study and food history on deep dish. There is a giordanos (one of the big local deep dish chains) around the corner from my house and I would estimate no more than 1 in 3 pizzas coming out of that place is deep dish.
And I can’t remember a single time I’ve been with a group of Chicagoans and they’ve decided to order deep dish with the exception after drinking at Pequods.
As someone who was raised elsewhere but has lived in Chicago a long time I’m fascinated how deep dish became externally associated with Chicago while internally it’s so poorly received. It would be like going to Southern California and finding out no one eats fish tacos.
Conversely Chicago hot dogs and (until recently) Italian beef are legitimately different and better in Chicago, widely acclaimed locally, but largely ignored outside of the city. So weird.
> But we have the best pizza in the world.
Naples enters the chat
I truly did not get that complaint until I left the NY/NJ area. Wow, it is shocking how bad restaurants are here in the US outside of a few regions. It makes me realize why so many New Jerseyans end up coming back!
You don't enjoy the food in so called 'Real America'? Taco Bell and Wendys are all a MAGA needs so its good.
Bad and expensive.
The bad food is a plus. The most orderly civilizations generally have the blandest food. Almost all societies with good food are chaotic and disorderly. This is true even within the US—nobody raves about the food in Vermont or Utah—and nobody raves about how clean and orderly New Jersey is.
Japan is blessed with incredible natural ingredients, but it's famously mild and light on seasoning compared to other Asian cuisines. There's a whole historical tradition as to why Japanese food avoids strong flavors: https://www.sushiya.de/en/washoku/shojin-ryori/
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If immigration wasn't so obnoxious, the prices it cost to visit NYC, Disneyland/world or even the crowds you'd have to deal with at national parks aren't worth it. There's a lot of beautiful places in the world (including the country to the north), and I sense the political winds in USA will eventually change and the exchange rate "benefit" US currently has will dwindle.
Yes. A discount trip for me (American) now is a trip out to Japan. Everything is awfully expensive now.
I wouldn't worry - the best parts of the US you can catch on TV or YouTube.
Agreed, there's nothing like watching someone hike the Grand Canyon or driving through Yellowstone on Youtube.
Maybe VR?
Sorry for the knee jerk unfunny snark. Just a little annoyed reading complaints from people who can't get their vacation in when pretty much my entire neighborhoood is in panick mode because they see probability of impending doom rising.
I think it is good decision on your part.
This whole traveling thing is not doing much good to the earth, to one's pocket, or to most of local people, cities, places one is traveling to (besides of course minority of people engaged in travel related businesses).
Travel used to be prerogative of rich or elites. A few more may travel due to work or business. But nowadays it is becoming an essential thing even for those like me who can't really afford or need. People who don't like or do traveling are considered as morally deficient.
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