Only about a dozen years ago Bletchley was inviting former codebreakers back for an annual reunion. I used to go along to hear the talks, meet some of them and get books signed, including by Betty Webb. I'm glad they eventually got the recognition they deserved.
We have almost lost the chance now to hear personal testimony of WWII. I've met several Battle of Britain pilots too, but the last died in Dublin recently:
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2025/0318/1502596-hemingway/
From wikipedia:
some tasks performed include registering messages on little cards, which Webb believes totaled 10,000 a day in the whole park, and organizing the cards into shoeboxes according to a strict order so they could be retrieved efficiently when called for.
I suppose times have changed.
Technology has changed for sure. Is our usage of human capital any better as a whole? Probably not. So many BS jobs out there.
they called them computers for a reason
Somewhat unrelated: I'm hoping to go to Bletchley Park this summer, any recommendations?
The main 'Bletchley Park' exhibition is good, but it focuses on the human experience of the code breakers. Head around the corner from the car park to the National Museum of Computing (also on the Bletchley Park site) to see more technical exhibitions: they give proper demonstrations of the machines invented at Bletchley, as well as the oldest working computer in the world (which was computing prime numbers when I visited).
Also, and not obvious, because these two entities are distinct despite occupying the same site: they're not always open at the same time. So if you want to see both, even if you plan to spend more time at one than the other, check they're both open.
Whether something is the first computer is - inevitably - a definitional argument, but TNMOC has several candidates (though not all of them) including (a modern reproduction of, the original was destroyed as a secret) Colossus which is famous because of its involvement in the war.
Bletchley Park is also still an actual stateley home, all the war stuff was built on somebody's grounds - there's a good chance you either don't care about stately homes or you're intending to visit a more interesting one (or indeed one of the Royal Palaces), in which case no need to care, but that's a third distinct thing on the same site.
[Edited to make clear there is no original Colossus, we destroyed it because it was a secret]
We have a few such odd arrangements, such as the "London Bus Museum", which isn't in London but is in fact entirely within a completely different museum, the Brooklands museum.
Operationally independent, although they have been considerate enough to synchronise their opening hours.
If you're interested in London Buses however, I'd actually recommend the (also unrelated) London Transport Museum, as this one is located in the tourist heart of central London in Covent Garden.
( NB: Brooklands is itself a great museum, but more for the aviation history )
Although the London Transport Museum is fun (some years back I decided to spend a week in my own capital city as a tourist, staying in a hotel in the centre, all day looking at stuff with tourists - and LTM is one of the things I decided to do) like most museums it does have a lot of stuff it can't display - but unlike most museums those things are sometimes huge like a bunch of buses, so they're not in a back room they're an entire other site, in Acton IIRC, the Depot, which is in fact open this weekend: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/whats-on/depot-open-days
Yes, there was a race track at Brooklands. Some sections of it are still there including some steep banked track.
I wouldn't skip the main exhibition area. In an era where people were called computers, the human experience was at the heart of the Bletchley Park machine. In the main area, you learn about the makeup of this apparatus: the different roles people had, how information flowed within and between the huts, and much more. There's also a little museum with fascinating artifacts and an area dedicated to Turing. Don't miss it.
Agreed, it is well worth visiting both.
I don't know if they are still in print but Bletchley Park Trust published a great series of monographs on particular aspects of the codebreaking story there. Highly technical, written by specialists, sometimes by people who had worked there. I picked up a load of them when I was there and can recommend.
Definitely enjoy the scenery. I've done Bletchley and the National Cryptologic Museum, the former is in a genuinely beautiful location, especially if you have sun.
They have a neat computer history museum there so make time for that too.
I did the tour of Bletchley Park today and my Tour Guide said he'd met Betty Webb, that he mourned her loss, and that when he had met her at a reunion, she had remained tight-lipped about what her work had been on.
Any good book that delves into the detail of the code breaking done at Bletchley park?
This is a great book and touches on the subject you mention https://simonsingh.net/books/the-code-book/
Having read this book, I set some codes for my son to break. Each code, once broken, told him the location of the next coded message. And they got progressively harder. It was a fun challenge.
The author of this book also runs an excellent weekly maths newsletter/quiz for 11-16 year olds, and it's free:
The Hut 6 Story, goes into enough detail that Gordon Welchman (Simply put, Turing's boss) lost his security clearance. If you care about the human side, but are keen to take on the details there's no better book possible.
Another vote for The Hut Six Story.
The title includes ‘Six’ not ‘6’ (not that it should trip up a search algo, but you never know)
If you would enjoy loosely related fiction, Neal Stephenson Cryptonomicon is an option I would personally recommend. You must have some tolerance for his particular style and content…
Or Enigma by Robert Harris.
"The Theory that Would Not Die" by Sharon McGrayne has a good chapter on this, book is a more general history of Bayesian statistics.
@dang For the sake of Dave Täht and Betty Webb, I believe a black bar is justified even on the 1st of April.
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I really like the four-part documentary series called "Staion X" which was all about Bletchly Park. It has numerous interviews with the folks that worked there -- they were a bunch of excellent oddballs, for sure.
It's a really fascinating perspective on WWII and how crap Monty was at being a general; he was reading the Germans' messages and still couldn't defeat Rommel. Only when the Med fleet intercepted and sank all his resupply ships did Rommel's crew finally lose.
The Germans' overconfidence in the Enigma machine was a big part of their downfall, especially once America's resources came to bear. Of course, that's what they deserved for having a leader speedballing meth and morphine.
All that said, the interesting historical twist is that no WWII history before the 1970s is accurate because all the Bletchly work was completely classified until one of their officers wrote a book about it. They cover that in the documentaries, too. There were men and women who had never told their families about what they did during the war, until the news finally broke. One mentioned how her daughter wondered why her mom knew that 'M' was the 13th letter.
>It's a really fascinating perspective on WWII and how crap Monty was at being a general; he was reading the Germans' messages and still couldn't defeat Rommel.
He did defeat Rommel though, didn't he?
And he defeated him twice. In the desert in 1942 and in France in 1944. Not bad for a crap General.
Eisenhower defeated Rommel, my friend, with Patton's brilliant help, dragging a limping Monty along by the hair. He was nearly sacked for insubordination.
The Germans only feared one Allied General, and it wasn't Monty (it was Patton).
If fact, Patton being relieved of command for slapping his soldier allowed him to serve as the uber-decoy in Great Britain to distract the Germans from being ready for a Normandy landing. God works in mysterious ways, indeed.
The Germans thought Patton's sacking for slapping a soldier was a ruse; that's how much esteem they had for him.
Yes, by rather a masterstroke of deliberately extending Rommels supply lines and fighting a giant staged battle at Rommels limit. By doing so he destroyed or captured much of Rommels men and material, rather than just pushing him back. All of which he did after a string of other Generals failed on the same front.
"They" defeated Rommel. No one can say whether he would have done so without Bletchley. Personally, I doubt he would have done so without the Med fleet utterly destroying all of Rommel's resupply train, but that's just my opinion.
It hurts to see the generation that won WWII pass, not the least bit because we seem to have forgotten the lessons from their struggle.
In their prime, they too forgot the lessons of their own ancestors struggle.
One of the films in the Why We Fight series opens by following a handful of very old men attending the 1941 Independence Day, or perhaps it was Memorial day, parade in Washington DC. The narrater later informs the viewer that these men are veterans of the Civil War.
Indeed, it is very easy to forget the struggle when one has sacrificed nothing to achieve it.
At least WWII, unlike those preceding it, has a vast well of literature to draw those lessons from. The trouble, however, is not just getting younger people to sit, read and analyze it, but also to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, with all the propaganda and misinformation to be had these days about the events of WWII, the Holocaust, Hiroshima/Nagasaki and so many other things that would make this list exceptionally long.
Books, are not the same as having lived it, of course. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn put it best in The Gulag Archipelago.
“If it were possible for any nation to fathom another people's bitter experience through a book, how much easier its future fate would become and how many calamities and mistakes it could avoid. But it is very difficult. There always is this fallacious belief: 'It would not be the same here; here such things are impossible.'
Alas, all the evil of the twentieth century is possible everywhere on earth.”
Ha, maybe I should read (in translation) some Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. I recognised his name having never seen it in print but only heard it repeatedly in that episode of Game Changer where it's a loop and the same questions are asked repeatedly.
> all the propaganda and misinformation to be had these days about the events of WWII, the Holocaust, Hiroshima/Nagasaki and so many other things
I'm curious as to what sort of propaganda or misinformation you're referring to. I'm in Europe and I haven't seen much of it, but maybe it's different in the US.
it's not different in the US, there is not a market of misinformation about WWII here. There is the the anti-war left alleging that that the allies committed war crimes and their opponents rejecting those arguments, but it's easy to find what happened in Dresden, Holocaust, etc, the disagreement is on interpretation.
There are several downvoted comments from butthurt Nazis in this thread.
Those comments appear to be from reincarnations of the same user. There are a few serial trolls who spew out terrible comments on HN and register new alts when their latest comments/accounts get killed.
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this seems unrelated to the post
He’s saying that her war efforts led to the British winning, but also led to the loss of their empire, culture, and race.
The user seems unrelated to reality. They keep reposting the same thing under different accounts.
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There seems to be an attack against this post, for some reason.
Fascists have recently become emboldened.
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qq - if her grave is unmarked, how will we know where to find it to "piss on it"?
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In 2001 in the small town of Hartsville SC, one of the youngest code breakers gave his last two public talks. He had been hired by Turing because he was one of the few studying both math and German at the start of the war.
Besides being very interesting it felt odd to hear all this in such an out of the way place. Well after the war he collaborated on some books with a professor teaching at the college there.
Two years ago my mother's memory care home had an American Battle of the Bulge veteran and Bronze Star winner who was sharp as a tack.
He was 99 and said he just wanted to live to be 100, but sadly he didn't make it.
I remember my late grandmother telling us they had made mittens for my great uncle, but he died in that battle before the mittens arrived.
Crazy to think I passed up my chance to have a cup of coffee with a man who might have fought beside my great uncle.
It's insane how the largest conflict in human history is just now passing out of living memory. It's also insane how 1 in 4 Americans under 40 believe the holocaust is a fabrication or exaggeration.
Do you have a source or are you flamebating[1]?
The myriad of trash google results on the topic aren’t even close to 1 in 4. Even an Israeli tabloid says it’s 1 in 10.
[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
> It's insane how the largest conflict in human history is just now passing out of living memory.
Don’t worry, there will be another one along any minute now.
It seems more than coincidental that global fascism started to rise as soon as the generation that last defeated it had mostly died off.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generat...
Definitely controversial academically, but the idea of a generational cycle has been considered.
The American Revolution was 240 years ago. The US Civil War was 160 years ago. The Second World War was 80 years ago...
the power of disinformation on social media platforms is apparently stronger than classroom teaching. it doesn't help that what is taught in classrooms is just getting worse for $reasons which is only going to get worse now that states are going to do whatever they want with schools now.
social conditions are deteriorating so people are reaching for alternative explanations. you want people to reach for true history? then you have to show them true history will benefit them. fortunately, there is a way to do this, but powerful people hate it and prefer patriotic history and disciplined workforces instead. then they blame minorities for the problems they cause.
It is rather lazy that people 'prefer' patriotic history and 'disciplined workforce'. I see no evidence of this.
I do gather that some parents are rather sanctimonious and scandalized about their children learning anything but the most sanitized version of history. That seems so far to be the most presence in banning anything. Witness Harry Potter being listed as one of the most challenged book at the height of popularity.
History as it was taught in my grade school years certainly wasn't whitewashed and they are rather explicit about some of the horror. Moreover, the problem is that history wasn't taught well and made 'boring'.
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