Back

DARPA exploring growing bio structures of "unprecedented size" in microgravity

177 points11 monthssam.gov
Havoc11 months ago

Hilariously obvious that someone's pet project got tacked on there at the end. Kilometer wide structures please - or alternatively can you make us a tube of bio glue to fix punctures?

transistor-man11 months ago

I'm here to welcome the era of bamboo based spaceships

ceejayoz11 months ago

There's a little one in orbit right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LignoSat

(although that's magnolia wood, not bamboo)

edaemon11 months ago

Woah, a wooden satellite, that's awesome! Somehow that feels more like a uniquely Earthly thing out there in space.

prennert11 months ago

Its also uniquely Japanese. From the wikipedia article:

> The satellite was assembled through a traditional Japanese crafts technique without screws or glue.

itishappy11 months ago

I for one am prepared for our evolution into the Ousters.

If you haven't read the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, go read it. It's worth it.

https://hyperioncantos.fandom.com/wiki/Ousters

jajko11 months ago

I loved how diverse those back stories of each characters were. A bit of cyberpunk, a bit of politics, interesting concept of time reversal.

Henchman2111 months ago

I immediately thought of the Templar’s tree ships. Clearly time for a re-read!

JumpCrisscross11 months ago

Whoever is doing DARPA’s PR and, apparently GR, since I guess federal agencies have to do that now, deserves a raise.

jordanb11 months ago

EP: Elon Pandering, an essential function for any agency these days.

nulld3v11 months ago

LOL as much as I disagree with Elon's current stint in government, this is probably among the most tame projects in DARPA's portfolio.

sandworm10111 months ago

Most tame and most not-classified.

initramfs11 months ago

tame as seaweed wrapped around your ankles in shallow water, i might say.

arolihas11 months ago

doesn't sound very efficient to me

lovich11 months ago

what is GR?

azemetre11 months ago

Guessing government relations, similar to PR being public relations.

JumpCrisscross11 months ago

Yup. Lobbyists are outside your org. GR coördinates their messaging.

+2
lovich11 months ago
PaulHoule11 months ago

This is a theme in "The Web Between the Worlds" [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Web_Between_the_Worlds

card_zero11 months ago

Wow, there's some serious zeitgeist going on there:

This novel was published almost simultaneously with The Fountains of Paradise by Arthur C. Clarke. Through an amazing coincidence the two novels contained many similarities. Both protagonists are engineers who have built the world's longest bridge using a machine named the "Spider", both of whom are hired to build a space elevator, and both engineers modify their Spiders to produce a crystalline fiber.

It's like the simultaneous invention of calculus. People are conduits for independently-living ideas.

Telemakhos11 months ago

The idea of spider webs in space was explored long before, in the second century AD, by Lucian of Samosata in his _Ἀληθῆ διηγήματα_ or "True Stories." Spiders run webs from the sun (land of the Heliots) and the moon (the Selenites) so that a vast space battle can be waged on a plain between them.

dekhn11 months ago

I initially downvoted this because it sounded ludicrous and couldn't be true, but indeed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_True_Story

Always fun to see stuff written almost 2 thousand years ago about life on other planets.

fooker11 months ago

If you have spent time in academia, this concept is ever present.

Somehow all the academics in a particular field all over the world just happen to agree on a narrow set of ideas to explore next.

Most of science happens like this, yes even the Newtons and Einsteins of the world explored ideas in this narrow frontier of next ideas. There used to be exceptions in the distant past but modern science does not tolerate exceptions.

glenstein11 months ago

When you say "exceptions" I can't tell if you mean to be hinting toward something like new-agey crystals, or something more like DARPA bio structures, or something else entirely. What is the frontier of unexplored knowledge that is forbidden by academia?

dekhn11 months ago

I can't remember the source (xkcd?) that drew any individual scientist's contribution as a tiny little bump on the edge of a huge circle.

It's not talked about it much outside of research groups, but for any field, there is a small number of people who are currently pushing the boundaries, and they all read each other's papers and have a good idea of what the next question to ask is. It can often be a race to engineer an experiment that convinces the reviewers that your article should be published first. It's a sort of cooperation/competition that moves the field forward faster. These areas often move so fast that nobody even bothers to write down the current problems, it's just sort of talked about in person.

Put another way, the successful discoverers are the ones looking for their keys at the end of the streetlight: "Science is a bit like the joke about the drunk who is looking under a lamppost for a key that he has lost on the other side of the street, because that's where the light is. It has no other choice." (Chomsky). Few if anybody looking where there is no light discovers anything (even if it's sitting there in the dark), or at least, nobody believes them unless they provide significant evidence (like building a new lamp)

+1
Merrill11 months ago
+2
WorkerBee2847411 months ago
moelf11 months ago

this. Even something as singular as the prediction of the Higgs boson was ~simultaneously reached by different groups(!) of people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_PRL_symmetry_breaking_pap...

PaulHoule11 months ago

I don't see it as that singular. Either

(1) hep-th had too many people chasing too few problems back then, or

(2) "scalar field with a mexican hat potential" is one of the simplest field theories you can write though it inspires all sorts of ideas like the Higgs Mechanism, Inflation, etc.

pegasus11 months ago

Calculus I can understand, but the kind of coincidence GP describes is much harder to explain.

itishappy11 months ago

"A clear case of plagiarism? No — merely an idea whose time has come." - Clarke

whyenot11 months ago

This reminds me of Larry Niven's Integral Trees. Very cool!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Integral_Trees

Falimonda11 months ago

Can we / will be ever be able to grow bioengineered coral at an accelerated rate with a desired growth structure/direction in space?

daveguy11 months ago

Accelerated rate with equivalent integrity probably requires some engineering tricks nature hasn't "figured out" yet. Given nature has had a few billion years of massively parallel processing of the original genetic algorithm, it's unlikely. Especially considering ASI is a pipe dream. Also, sea creatures use buoyancy to their advantage.

Maybe we will find other structure development systems from combining existing pieces of biologic systems. But that's also unlikely, because biologic systems are so incredibly entangled (to use a software concurrency/complexity term).

That said, it is an awesome research direction, just for the novel construction techniques potential.

mouse_11 months ago
neom11 months ago
kazinator11 months ago

We kind of have microgravity on Earth under water, which provides apparent reduced weight due to buoyancy. Coral reefs and all that.

Underground root/rhizome structures are also bio structures existing in a kind of microgravity since they are firmly supported by the surrounding soil they are packed into.

paxys11 months ago

Yeah, but getting these structures into space is 99% of the challenge. Best to build them there to begin with.

yummypaint11 months ago

Wonder if anyone is looking into splicing those spider silk genes into a fungus. Maybe the mycelium could gain enough tensile strength to hold pressure? Maybe exude the proteins and form strong tubes around itself? Fungal structures are already surprisingly light for how strong they are.

beanjuice11 months ago

What I don't understand about the proposal is that every c-c bond the fungus could make still has to be shipped from earth.

xolox11 months ago

Might it not be possible to "harvest" carbon from sources on e.g. the moon [1], thereby requiring less effort to launch those resources into orbit? Feel free to point out if I'm talking (thinking) nonsense here...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_resources#Carbon_and_nit...

tonetegeatinst11 months ago

Feedsto ck is the moon...its literally resources we don't have to transport into space if we use the moon.

inetknght11 months ago

That's not quite how gravity wells work.

xvilka11 months ago

Reminded me of coral based living spaceships of The Night's Dawn trilogy by Peter Hamilton.

krashidov11 months ago

serious question - how do you water it?

eGQjxkKF6fif11 months ago

Would hemp be viable in this case?

beanjuice11 months ago

What will make the hemp?

genman11 months ago

What would be feed stock for this?

JoelMcCracken11 months ago

Either human blood or potatoes, the two options.

alexfromapex11 months ago

If it's complimentary, doesn't that mean it's free? Why do they need a contract then?

tz1811 months ago

This is the sort of shit that gets you glassed by the watchers

smfjaw11 months ago

the flood!

xeonmc11 months ago

Between this and the drone-swarm command experiment from yesterday, seems like whoever is heading DARPA mains Zerg in StarCraft.

7thaccount11 months ago

Might also have something to do with the war in Ukraine completely changing our understanding of modern warfare. Defense projects take decades to design and build and now out doctrine is somewhat impacted by how effective drones are proving to be.

inetknght11 months ago

> the war in Ukraine completely changing our understanding of modern warfare

Am I crazy to think that the war in Ukraine hasn't changed my understanding of modern warfare?

Maybe I'm in the wrong business.

dmos6211 months ago

Do you discount the impact of drones, or did you put a lot of value in them before the war and still do? I find the tactics around using expendable troops to attrit expensive troops a bit humbling too.

+1
Out_of_Characte11 months ago
+1
inetknght11 months ago
Freedom211 months ago

Could you clarify what this means? Is this some inside HackerNews reference I'm unaware of?

malwrar11 months ago

Starcraft is a real-time strategy game, and Zerg is one of three factions you can play in the game. Zerg units are individually weak but cheap compared to the other factions, so Zerg players typically compose swarms of disposable units when staging and conducting attacks. It’s also quicker to make large swarms, since there isn’t a sequential build queue for Zerg unit construction. It makes for a pretty interesting switch in mindset compared to the other sides, where there is much more emphasis on preserving one’s units. Some of the more obnoxious strategies, like the Zerg rush, have become memes among gamers.

NickC2511 months ago

>Zerg units are individually weak but cheap compared to the other factions

And fast. So. fucking. fast.

I hate playing against Zerg.

nntwozz11 months ago

This is also apt:

The term "Zerg Rush", or "zerging", is now commonly used to describe sacrificing economic development in favor of using many cheap, yet weak units to overwhelm an enemy by attrition or sheer numbers.

— Wikipedia

ziddoap11 months ago

It's a StarCraft reference.

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Zerg

"The Zerg Swarm is a terrifying and ruthless amalgamation of biologically advanced, arthropodal aliens. [...] They are named "the Swarm" per their ability to rapidly create strains, and the relentless assaults they employ to overwhelm their foes."

jdaodjsi11 months ago

This is one of the three main factions in StarCraft. Think hiveminds and bugs.

bluSCALE411 months ago

Zerg is a playable race in the game Starcraft. They are bio units where everything you build is biological.

eyvindn11 months ago

could you link the drone swarm command article?

booleandilemma11 months ago
more_corn11 months ago

Drone swarm is tos just sayin.

tehjoker11 months ago

Don't forget swarm hosts ;)

pinoy42011 months ago

[dead]

dimator11 months ago

[flagged]

928340923211 months ago

Any department that is responsible for paying Elon Musk has a better chance than others that stand in his way. USAID was investigating musk and CFPB were in the way of his X Pay nonsense. He gets a lot of money from the DoD so if anything they will have their budget increased.